Barracks Create Veterans?

[DrFell]

I think, at the very least barracks should provide something other than auto-veteran units. Maybe experience levels are the key. In civ2 i wouldnt bother building a non-vet unit later in the game. Barracks made veteran units a neccessity. Now in some scenarios barracks are disabled, so you cant build veteran units, they have to earn it through combat. This makes you really value those vet units, which is the way it should be.

[Lancer]

Theben, more liberal than I thou...hey! No reason to get insulting.


Well, this thread is getting somewhere. It seems that there is a trend developing of people who are like thinking. Some have mentioned morale, some experience, but everyone seems to agree that barracks simply provide training, turning civies into soldiers. It takes actual combat to make a man good at being a soldier, and even more important, to turn a group of soldiers into a true team. Myself, I'm with Technophile. Whether or not you feel good about your job doesn't preclude you from doing it well, or poorly. Morale definatly influences the trend of a large group, but combat vets with morale problems and green troops with morale problems are going experience the same problems, but! The depressed vets would still be a higher level of troop than depressed green troops. Morale wouldn't influence the differential and might be hard to represent in a game, while experience should be fairly easy I would imagine.

DrFell hit the nail right on the head. You got a combat veteran unit, something you can't ever build, and that's like a kid having a cookie, it's fun. Fun is one of the reasons we play these games, yes?
[This message has been edited by Lancer (edited February 04, 2001).]

[dennis_caver]

I think a Barracks type city Improvement is a
requirement. Using Civ2 as the example, 3 levels sound
about right. 'Green(no Bar), Regular(w/Bar), Veteran
(w/Battle Exp.). Also the barracks should probably
appear later in the game, to coincide with advanced
training techniques. Also there may be several training
improvements available in the modern era where tactics
and technology changes require personnell updates.
These training centers could be Empire\Nation wide
rather then city based.

Spelunk 'til y puke,

Dennis

[colossus]

I like the idea-barracks don't create veterans!

In civ2, we don't border to have our vet units killed. As long as the barracks are there, we could pump out infinitely more vets.

But if barracks no longer produce vets, we will be at pains replenquishing the lost veterans. It will then be much more difficult to take out an enemy with a small but elite army. Quality makes up for quantity!

[Straybow]

One of the major problems with all the civlike games is the disparity between the cost of building things and the cost of maintaining them. This is combined with what I call Small Integer Syndrome, which limits the flexibility of the costs. For example it takes 40 shields to build a typical army/navy unit and one shield per turn to maintain it. SIS means that we can't increase support cost proportional to morale, we can only double or triple it. Cost disparity means it takes forever to build up a mighty military but next to nothing to support it.

While I could cite the "realism" bugaboo, I appeal to gameplay instead. If a typical military unit instead cost 12 shields to build and 4 to maintain the strategic complexion of the game is changed. A big city can build several units in one turn, but is then saddled with hefty support costs. Building improvements then takes much longer, forcing a truly strategic decision making process.

By increasing the support cost it becomes possible to have a cost increment associated with morale. Green troops would cost 3, regulars 4, vets 5, elite 6. Then training has a meaning: it would cost an extra x shields and perhaps some money to upgrade morale one step. Allowing fractional resource and money units wouldn't hurt. Any city improvement that allows the production of vet units doesn't relieve the burden of the incremental cost.

One way to limit "instant armies" would be to allow only one regular unit to be produced per turn, all others being green units. Barracks would allow one vet, one regular, and others green. The green units would still cost as much as the regulars. Units that take damage can become degraded in morale, representing dilution of the experience pool. Units could be voluntarily degraded to save support costs during peacetime.

"Healing" a unit would then be controlled by support cost as well, and speeding the healing of a unit by increasing materials and personnel recruiting would be modeled by extra shield (and maybe money) costs.

Motorized units would have an increase in support cost, i.e., +1 shield due to vehicle fuel and maintenance/repair parts. Mech, armor, and air units might need +2 shields. These costs would not be effected by morale.