Great Idea for us scenario builders!

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

quote: Originally posted by St Leo on 01-14-2001 10:07 PM I've never even knew the turks had a civil war. Yes, your education system is screwed up. Sure, the conquest of britain was major, but if it didn't happen, there would still be British. If the American Civil War had not happenned, there would still be Americans. the chinese civil war? it effected no one except themselves, UNLIKE the american war of independence. Ignoring your deplorable spelling and the implications derived from the Chaos Theory, we can safely say that an Imperial or Democratic China would have resulted in a very different century. what is the basis of america, simple answer, its freedoms and rights, the constitution to be specific. and the constitution would not have been ratified had the american revolution NOT taken place. Your Declaration of Independence and to a lesser degree Constitution were hardly groundbreaking in its content. They borrowed from Emmanuel Kant and a dozen other philosophers most of their content. A much more important thing to remember about your Revolution is that it probably inspired the French one.

1. You dont live in the United States, that much is clear.

2. I said nothing to do with the american civil war. I dont know why the hell you said that, pure stupid.

3. so what if it inspired the french one? our revolution was a great example, why the hell wouldn't someone have the right to break away from tyranny? The french government was collapsing, they needed a new form of government. And the american government was the best to choose from, I promise you that.

ps. you know why most other nations despise the United States? because they know we have something they do not...freedom. freedom of speech, religion, freedom of the press, etc. etc. etc. The number one reason for hatred is jealousy.

[Brent]

Diablo, you know I respect you, but I don't think we Americans ought to act superior to non-Americans. I think some forums have guidelines against that sort of thing.

[Sirotnikov]

Diablo, I disagree with many things you have said, but it isn't the topic here. The simple reason why the american civil war is a bad scenario as one of the major four is that it is too local and too war-like. There are no other paths.

The only scenario I play besides WWII is a scenario I download two years ago from apolyton called "The 20th century". It starts in 1918 with Germany, Russia, League of Nations, China, Japan, USA and Brittain.

Why is it so good?
You simply start and play each nation the way you want. The data was pretty accurate historically and the nations are just beginning to develop themselves. Most often I played germany and started a WWII or russia and started WWII as well .

This was very open ended and very not easy. You had a great number of options. You could wage war or be isolationist and build Space ships. WWII was always started (because of attitudes, not because of events) by China and Japan and then germany and the league of nations.

In Civ 3 there could be more civilizations so there would be france spain and more countries. If rebellions are possible, events could be programmed so that new nations will form in india, the middle east, south america and africa from nations who were previously under imperilistic control.

This is the best scenario i can think of.

[tniem]

The biggest thing that Diablo said in his original post was to keep the number of scenarios created by Firaxis down. The rest can be made by those that want to play them. Firaxis should only do a few very important scenarios with mulitple ways to win.

[Evil Capitalist]

quote: Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 01-16-2001 05:17 PM ps. I forgot to mention that the Americans were also the ones that stopped Sadam Husane.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but several other nations contributed to the offensive. I'd like to see how far you'ldve got without Saudi help.

quote: pps. why make scenarios just because they involved 3 or more different countries even though they had nothing major. sure, I know the nepoleolic wars were major. But the american revolution is most likely the number one reason why the americans and british are not best friends any more. and it was the most major thing happening at the time.

Brits and yanks not best friends. You say we don't know about your history. If you knew about your history you would realise that since George Canning's spell as foreign secretary Anglo American relationships improved dramatically. Unless you noticed you did help us out in two world wars.

The arguement that nothing else major was happening at the time is completely irrelevent. It would justify any scenario from Kosovo to the War of Jenkins' ear.

quote: ppps. By the way, our constitution and declaration of independence were taken from other historical stuff...I know that!, you think I'm stupid? You think I dont know my own countries history. But, it is because of those two documents that america is what it is today. since when has any government in the history of the world been as long lasting, and successful as the american government. sure, there are lots of governments around the world that have lasted much longer then americans', but since when were they 'good' governments, giving the people what they freely deserve.

Try the British government. Emancipated slaves before America. Allowed women the vote throughout before America IIRC. Also made its people the richest and most powerful in the world.

[Adm.Naismith]

Please, please, don't trash a good thread!

Ladies and Gentlemen, back on track!
Current interesting points are (I'm adding some just now):

- Firaxis releasing just a bunch of scenarios; > do you like/dislike? (downloading later can be expensive and tiresome)

- Main sources of others scenarios you'll like more:
from fans on Apolyton or Firaxis official site (at least one new every month for a year to keep the game fresh) > Fans or Firaxis?

- Scenarios on the box must be:
mainly around war,
peaceful development and diplomacy
or a mix of the two?
> Suggestion on scenario subject are welcome, nasty disagreement are not
Mark and DanQ can make a poll to rate the resulting suggestions, keep the guns reloading for that moment

My humble opinion.

------------------
Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[tniem]

Adm.Naismith,

I prefer the game be able to allow scenario creators to be fans. Firaxis does not have time to make countless scenarios. They need the time to make Civ III a great game and then begin working on whatever the next game is.

Fans have time to make scenarios, test them, and then distribute them. I think that the Apolyton community will produce more scenarios than Firaxis can hope to, and the Apolyton community will do it for free while Firaxis making them will cost money.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

quote: Originally posted by Evil Capitalist on 01-17-2001 03:44 AM Try the British government. Emancipated slaves before America. Allowed women the vote throughout before America IIRC. Also made its people the richest and most powerful in the world.

Your talking completely about britain years ago, how about today. I know the british have a good government, I personally think they have a great government, its just that look at the america what it is TODAY.

p.s. Most americans back then disagreed with slavery. it was mainly the southern states that wanted it.

I know the saudis helped! It was thanks to them that we had airbases in saudi to help out...dah! But if america didn't help out, it would have taken the other countries alot longer to defeat Husane. We were the ones that sent in the majority of the troops.

to the rest of you: sorry to get off the subject. I just think that firaxis should make one scenario to show us all how to operate the new editors, then a couple more so we can get the feel for scenarios in civ3.

[Brent]

Well, to put my foot partway into my mouth, From what I hear the British only decided to be friendly to us was fear. They saw what we did to the Spanish, and didn't want to be next. This view is probably not too fair, since it comes from Americans.

More scenarios mean a better whole product, which is more important than the release date. Maybe base all the ones in the original game on the ones in MGE. I do think Firaxis should sell an additional set of scenarios in the stores, because some people don't have access to the fan ones. I personally would likely be unable to create good, historically accurate scenarios, depending on the editor. I think once the main Civ3 is finished, it would be fine for them to spend additional time making more scenarios. Civ3 is their flagship, and without knowing what they'll do next, I don't have anything to be impatient about.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

quote: Originally posted by Brent on 01-18-2001 02:48 PM Well, to put my foot partway into my mouth, From what I hear the British only decided to be friendly to us was fear. They saw what we did to the Spanish, and didn't want to be next. This view is probably not too fair, since it comes from Americans. More scenarios mean a better whole product, which is more important than the release date. Maybe base all the ones in the original game on the ones in MGE. I do think Firaxis should sell an additional set of scenarios in the stores, because some people don't have access to the fan ones. I personally would likely be unable to create good, historically accurate scenarios, depending on the editor. I think once the main Civ3 is finished, it would be fine for them to spend additional time making more scenarios. Civ3 is their flagship, and without knowing what they'll do next, I don't have anything to be impatient about.

I thought you said you dont want me putting us americans above other quote, 'non-americans', now look at yourself.

[tniem]

quote: Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 01-17-2001 11:31 PM I know the saudis helped! It was thanks to them that we had airbases in saudi to help out...dah! But if america didn't help out, it would have taken the other countries alot longer to defeat Husane. We were the ones that sent in the majority of the troops.

Defeat Hussein??? He is still there.

My country, the U.S. did nothing in the Gulf War. It was a war to maintain cheap oil. It ended with us leaving their leader as the head of their government. What did we accomplish?

Never again say that the U.S. proved anything in the Gulf War, we didn't. And Hussein is still there smiling as his people die off.

[chrispie]

Had to have my say in this thread...

I mean, little thing known collectively as 'The Industrial Revolution'....heard of it Diablo? That literally created the world as it is today, a tiny bit more important than a revolution in one country I think, regardless of who it involved.

Of course there is also the British Empire, that'd come 4th in my list of world changing events.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

tniem,

I realize he is still there, you are right about that, but we did do one thing, we drove the Iraqies of of Kuwait.

also, Yin26, if you read this, please delete this thread of mine, its got to be quite...bloody.
[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited January 20, 2001).]

[Brent]

Well, at least I was talking about the fairly distant past, and I only did it once! I do have a good deal of respect for the UK, and I'd like to hear their view.

[tniem]

quote: Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 01-20-2001 10:53 PM I realize he is still there, you are right about that, but we did do one thing, we drove the Iraqies of of Kuwait.

If you mean that we bulldozed Iraqis than you are quite right. We do not know how many we killed in the war because we dumped sand on their heads.

The 'war' was so one sided that construction crews could have been used to win the 'war.' I do not think this proves that the U.S. is so strong nor would necessarily have taken our allies longer to defeat him had England, France, Germany, and others participated.

Should the U.S. have gotten involved? IMHO I would say yes, but it is something that we should never brag about nor use to say we are so great. War is a terrible thing and when it has no end result or sucess than it is pointless and those that died did so for no gain to anyone.