Renewable Energies

[krauter]

The Forum "Resources change with time" http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/001344.html?3#3
would also fit in our concept.

[Hendrik the Great]

Hmm...

First, what does this mean: "ISO 14000 and Life Cyle Analysis (LCA)" ?

I would like to help you simplify this but I can't think of anything simpler. For me it sounds quite understandable.

The effectivness of certain technologies would have an impact on not just the effective use of energy but also on the scale of pollution, wouldn't it?

Don't you think it is somewhat funny in Civ that you have to build a power plant in every city? In real life smaller cities are supply by the plants in other cities.
Maybe we could introduce overland power cabels...

[Hendrik the Great]

When you started this thread you wrote that you are a professor in this field. So I was wondering what is it exactly that you are doing?

[Adm.Naismith]

Hendrik, about you question on ISO 14000, please jump to http://www.iso.ch for deep explanation.

In short, ISO (International Organization for Standardization) make standard books of rules about Quality (ISO 9000) and Environment (ISO 14000) in business (production process) and a lot more.

If a company complain to ISO 14000 rules, it must take care of environmental impact of a product (or service), starting from project scratch to the final disposal (recycling) of it.

I know ISO 14000 compliance on industry just enough to assure you they almost always become huge paper monster useless if not to maintain lot of ISO certification company I for sure will roll on the floor laughing if Firaxis will put them as a Wonder with positive effects on environment

That said, I support the original idea of Raingoon about energy barrels and any reasonable improvement that can match with the strategic, global level of a CIV game (not Sim powerline, please ).

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[MidKnight Lament]

quote: Originally posted by That said, I support the original idea of Raingoon about energy barrels and any reasonable improvement that can match with the strategic, global level of a CIV game (not Sim powerline, please ).

Agreed

- MKL

[Hendrik the Great]

I was just thinking to much I guess. Forget about those power lanes! Now!

That's what happens if someone gets me thinking and if then there is no one there to stop me.

[Otso Vuorio]

Thinking is ok Hendrik the Great

I agree!

[Hendrik the Great]

I wonder what happened to krauter...

What other from of getting energy are there? I think we have the significant ones.

[krauter]

quote: Originally posted by Hendrik the Great on 04-26-2000 08:20 AM When you started this thread you wrote that you are a professor in this field. So I was wondering what is it exactly that you are doing?

... sorry for being offline - I was travelling (European Photovoltaic Solar Energy Congress in Glasgow, UK, May 1-6)

Answers to Hendrik: Job: I am teaching Photovoltaic Systems at the Federal State
University of Rio de Janeiro (UFRJ-COPPE)
and I try to establish a department for
Renewable Energies here.
Thanks for keeping the discussion !
I`ll be back soon...



[This message has been edited by krauter (edited May 09, 2000).]

[krauter]

quote: Originally posted by Hendrik the Great on 04-29-2000 06:48 AM I wonder what happened to krauter... What other from of getting energy are there? I think we have the significant ones.

...agreed - we have it, we just should get it to FIRAXIS!
(but I still think energy "barrels" will just be used 1850-2050, then its over - even SHELL and BP think that they will do their main business on renewables after 2040, so energy "units" are better)

[This message has been edited by krauter (edited May 12, 2000).]

[krauter]

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith on 04-27-2000 08:09 AM Hendrik, about you question on ISO 14000, please jump to http://www.iso.ch for deep explanation. If a company complain to ISO 14000 rules, it must take care of environmental impact of a product (or service), starting from project scratch to the final disposal (recycling) of it. I know ISO 14000 compliance on industry just enough to assure you they almost always become huge paper monster useless if not to maintain lot of ISO certification company I for sure will roll on the floor laughing if Firaxis will put them as a Wonder with positive effects on environment

- its a huge paper monster, yes, but its outcome is helping the environment, because the companies start to think over a complete
life-cycle of a product (production, utilization and recycling) - remember that also the United Nations are mainly a huge paper monster also (especially at its beginning, take look at all their regulation stuff), but at the end something useful spins off (sometimes).

Anyway - perhaps we should make LCA (independent of ISO14000) a wonder.
It considers all energy and material flows
going into and out from a product during a life-cycle: digging of raw materials, transport, preparation of materials, manufacting of product, use of product, recycling. This really helps to mimimize ecological impact.

[Hendrik the Great]

There you are again!

I just returned yesterday from traveling, too. I was at Brussels for a few days with my school class. Our geography teacher had arranged for us to visit the European Parliament there.

I have to catch up on some school business so I'll be back later...

[krauter]

Suggestion:
Solar Electric Roofs Wonder

Every house is then equipped with a photovoltaic (PV) roof and has enough energy for themselves and some to feed into the public grid. Advantages: de-centralized power generation makes the society less vunerable: natural diseasers have a 50% smaller impact, in case of wars: under attack only 50% population reduction. Total power production is increased by 25% without emissions. No lifetime limits. Cost: 1000.

History:
This resembles to some first iniciatives as the German "1000 roofs photovolatics" program in 1989-1993 (which was funded quite well and resulted in 2250 PV roofs) or the Japanese "70000 PV roofs" program (under construction, started 1997) or the US "1 million roof program" (just tax reduction).
These programs resulted just started the use of household solar electricity in 1990-2010.
CIV 3 reflects the situation in about 2020, when all households have a solar roof.
[This message has been edited by krauter (edited May 12, 2000).]

[Hendrik the Great]

It sounds like a nice idea. One should be carefull with the bonusses it gives but I like it.

What I'd like even more would be if I could make up my own ways of generating power, not just the options the game offers. But I guess that would be too difficult to make.

I'd say we get these ideas about alternative energies more known around the forums and see what can be done to get it to FIRAXIS so it will be noticed. Who knows, maybe they like it!

What do you say?

[ember]

I don't think life spans should be used. Some of those technologies would olny produce for a single turn if you were ahead in teh tech curve.
Even if it lasts longer (10 turns) and takes 5 to make, you are spending nearly half your time on one structure.
Assume that the maintenance cost pays for repairs and rebuilds of the plant.

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"Any technology, sufficiently advanced,
is indistinguishable from magic"
-Arthur C. Clark