Happiness Pool

[DarkCloud]

The civilizations should have a happiness pool that regulates the
entire civilizations happy rate, this happiness pool should be
poured out to each city like so

Civ Happy Rate (Base 85%)
1. Lose x Units a turn (x% unhappiness for 2 turns)
2. Government Type (+ or - happiness)
3. Tax Rate (Fluctuates) (10%= 1% unhappy)
4. Luxury Rate (Fluctuates) (10%= 1% happy)
5. Wonders

When happiness is above 95% production is increased by 50%
When happiness is above 90% production is increased by 20%
When happiness drops below 75% production is halved
When happiness drops below 60% you have a revolt in the city

City Happy Rate (Base 85%)
1. Civ Happy Rate (Affects this)
2. "Happy" Structures (Colosseums,etc)
3. Proximity of Enemy Units (if within city radius and at war, -5% happy for 1, an extra 2%
for 2, an extra 1% for over 2.)
4. Proximity of Friendly Units (if in city, or within radius, +5% happy for 1 unit,
+2% for 2, an extra 1% for up to 3.)
5. Wonders


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QUOTE LINES FOR RENT:

Maximizing Macromanagement
--A snake in the hand is worse than two in the bush

Perpetual Prince

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

This is pretty much already in civ2. But good idea anyway.

[DarkCloud]

Not quite- it is in CTP, however.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

Alright, I read it again, and yes, some of this stuff is not in civ2. But some of it is. I have to say something about taxes though. In civ2, I usually have taxes at 10 or 20% (with fundementalism government). I think taxes should be much lower, going by 2's, not 10's. Just look at the American Revolution, when Britain taxed the States for tea, guess what rate it was at, (im not axadurating about this percentage) 5-6%, and then they revolted.

[airdrik]

Actually, it wasn't just about taxes on the tea, it was about taxes on everything, as well as the lack of representation in the governing body in England. Also, the reason why they made such a big fuss over the taxes is because these taxes were above the usual [federal/sales] taxes that were paid at the time. Don't ask me for the figures on these.

Let's compensate, shall we? 1% unhappyness per 5% tax rate, and 1% happyness per 10% luxeries.
[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited December 17, 2000).]

[orange]

airdrik hits a good point - no Civ should get by easily with above 50% tax...no matter what the government (well...maybe communism)

I think Economy should affect happiness as well, depending on how the tax and luxuries are set up. I do fear, however, a Sim City approach which I for one am not interested in with Civ 3.

I don't know about using 85% as a base #...and definitely not 60% as a revolt #...

More than half were unhappy in the USSR...but it survived for 80 odd years. 21 million died of hunger, and you can't forget the gulags (sp?), or the horrible standard of living. So maybe 40% and below causes revolution...and 65% is the base. Also - production should be affected by the economy and government not just happiness...

Hmmm...possible thread idea...


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[orange]

oh, the American Revolution was really a joke. England did very little to piss us off tax wise. They even offered to lessen our woes with some of the acts, we were just to blind to see it...

The roots are in our long growing taste of freedom, and disobedience of authority...

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[airdrik]

quote: Originally posted by orange on 12-17-2000 01:35 PM airdrik hits a good point - no Civ should get by easily with above 50% tax...no matter what the government (well...maybe communism)

Actually, we here in America have an average tax rate of about 40% (it depends on your income what the actuall tax rate is, the bracets have tax rates from 0% for people with no-low income, to about 60%(?) for people with high income people).

quote: I don't know about using 85% as a base #...and definitely not 60% as a revolt #... More than half were unhappy in the USSR...but it survived for 80 odd years. 21 million died of hunger, and you can't forget the gulags (sp?), or the horrible standard of living. So maybe 40% and below causes revolution...and 65% is the base. Also - production should be affected by the economy and government not just happiness... Hmmm...possible thread idea...

Actually the USSR was about 50 years old when it 'disolved,' (it was established durring WW2) and it was the military control of the people that kept the people in line.

[orange]

yes, but it did survive didn't it?

Sorry about the years...I thought 1917 revolution = birth of USSR which is wrong...lapse in thinking

Also - American's have a lot of luxury to balance it all out...

So perhaps a system which weighs luxury and tax...

30% tax and 10% luxury = 20% discontent (not bad)
60% tax and 10% luxury = 50% discontent (revolt!)

Well that does at least change my view about what I said earlier...using the examples I just said I guess 40% discontent (or 60% happiness) would be a good base.

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[DarkCloud]

England was right to tax the colonies, the Americans were nothing but curse fiends who wanted to create trouble. The people in England were being taxed more than the Americans, and the French and Indian war was fought in AMERICA! not England.

However, in the end it all worked out for the better. (WWI, WWII)

[orange]

I agree DarkCloud.

:ducks the fist of MWHC:

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[cubbyphan1138]

The American Revolution was not really about taxes at all. The colonies actually had low taxes (as Darkcloud pointed out). For a good discussion on the subject I would suggest reading The Radicalism of the American Revolution. I read it for school about 3 years ago and it was one of the most interesting books I've ever read. Also, you need when discussing this topic you need to distunguish between the American Revolution, which was a social revoultion, and the American War for Independence, which was the actual breaking away from England.

As for the original happiness idea, I think it is good and I definitely agree that the way trade is balanced needs some work.

[DarkCloud]

Well, welcome to the boards cubby.

Notes:

The cities you conquer in all ages should have a higher chance of revolt than
the cities that you have built. Their percentage should be 10% for revolt than
the original normal rate for your built cities, and every 3 turns it should go
down by 1%.

[orange]

Good point DarkCloud. I supported this (back when I was hardcore Civ 3 ) and continue to do so. I think it's a great way of keeping the rise and fall of empires idea in the game. Especially when religious or cultural boundries are crossed (IE Canadians would be less upset by American Domination than China would be)

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[airdrik]

Orange, I just realized I was wrong about the USSR being born 50 yrs ago, you were right. I was thinking it was started around WWII, but it was WWI. My bad.

As for the taxes and the american revolution, the taxes was more like one of the straws on the camel's back. It didn't break it, but if it weren't there, the camel's back might not have broken.