My complete technology tree

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by wernazuma on 11-08-2000 07:18 PM Information Age ?

Yes, the Information Age. That is the Age that our world is currently going through. It began with the discovery of the Internet, the "Information Superhighway," the driving force of the Information Age. As a result, information is the most produced product in today's world. The discovery of the Internet in Civ3 should begin the Information Age.

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Zero

[Nikolai]

Let me see...
The Internet was invented in the US to help the military in 19...63, I think? But the Information age didn't begin before much later......

Well, that's all.


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Who am I? What am I? Do we need Civ? Yes!!
birteaw@online.no

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 11-10-2000 12:37 PM That also leaves a void in the time frame: What do you call the time period between the industrial age and the information age

Why, the atomic age, of course (with the discovery of Nuclear Fission)!



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Zero

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker on 11-10-2000 10:17 AM Some of the Primitive wonders just aren't primitive: Sun Tzu, Angkor Wat, Colossus - these are late classical or even later. I would suggest the Ziggurat for some kind of ancient wonder instead of Angkor...

Remember that building a wonder takes a lot of time. Also, advances did not come at the same time in every part of the world. The Angkor Wat was built using only very primitive techniques, not even Masonry was applied.

quote: Primitive ploughs were not iron...

That's true, they started out as a wooden stick. Not really much of an advance at the time. I put it into my tree when it became a new technology, ie when wheels were added. It could as well have been given a new name in the English language.

quote: The calendar is far more ancient than you are allowing for.

Yes, but with irrigation it gained much importance. Since this cannot well be caught in a technology tree, I compromised. The link from Calendar to The Council is very important: The Council should not come too soon.

quote: Time keeping - this is a must, how the designers of civ left this out is puzzling. Certainly a pre-req for advanced warfare, ...

Well, Time-keeping is older than Fire. It gained importance ever so slowly over the ages. I've considered to put an advance as "The Clock" into my tree, but where? It got lost in the shuffle, as did other eternal techs like Sports, Advertising and Fashion. I think Time-keeping is too much part of the essence of civilization to be represented by a technological advance.

quote: Weaving/textiles should be a tech - and advanced weaving led to the principle of computers via templates

.

But weaving itself is very old, so that wouldn't be a good link. So are templates. The combination is simply considered to be included in the line Industrialization -> Logistics -> Algorithms -> Computers.

quote: Its one thing to toss a spear in a pond or drop a hook in a stream and another to get in a canoe-like boat capable of actual ocean travel and the whaling it allowed. In fact, when a whale is on the map, players should need deep sea fishing to take advantage of it.

In ancient times Whales were exploited by simply watching the beach - occasionally a whale would lose orientation and perish on the shore. But the Whales square in civ also stands for dolphins, walrusses, seals etc., which were hunted.

quote: Herbal lore should be a pre-req for the shaman - drugs were very important to shamanism.

Good point, I will probably make the adjustment.

quote: One last thing, disease needs to be in the game somehow. And disease should become even more of a factor upon meeting new peoples. In addition to barbs, disease should be able to wipe out cities/towns in rare cases.

Is this a plea for a disasters option, as in SimCity?

Thanks for your input, Berzerker!

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Nikolai on 11-10-2000 11:55 AM Let me see... The Internet was invented in the US to help the military in 19...63, I think? But the Information age didn't begin before much later...... Well, that's all.

Actually, the origin of the Internet stems from the Military's ARPANET. More information can be found here.

Though, you have brought up an interesting point. Perhaps an ARPANET tech could be a prerequisite for The Internet tech.



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Zero

[Ribannah]

Way to minor, I fear

Anyway, I'd say that "Information Age" would rather be a fair substitute for "Modern Age". The increase of information streams did not start with the Internet, but with telephone and radio. In addition, I don't expect many new breakthroughs with regard to information in the coming century.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[airdrik]

Actually, if you want to be accurate, there should be no 'Modern age' as the term 'modern' refers to the present. Right now the 'modern' age is the information age.
That also leaves a void in the time frame: What do you call the time period between the industrial age and the information age? and what events seperate this age from the other ages that border it (it and info=internet, it and industrial?)
[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited November 10, 2000).]

[Stuff2]

Hunting and gathering are both 'techs' that even animals use.
The fire has been used bye human species more than half a million years.

[airdrik]

Re: Cannons need to come before musketeers somehow. After all, the chinese had gunpowder in the 10th century which they used as incendiary grenades for their catapults. Later they found that Gunpowder could be used as a propellant, thus inventing true cannons, long before it was ever used in a personal musket.

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 11-12-2000 12:14 AM Re: Cannons need to come before musketeers somehow. After all, the chinese had gunpowder in the 10th century which they used as incendiary grenades for their catapults. Later they found that Gunpowder could be used as a propellant, thus inventing true cannons, long before it was ever used in a personal musket.

In 13th century Arabia and then Europe, too, there were cannons before fire-arms. But, as in China, they were a rarity until metallurgy made them more reliable. The Arabs made the first single-person guns around 1300 (shooting arrows rather than bullets, but still).

"Musketeers" stand for all muzzle-loading fire-arms, not just the musket.

It is always hard to choose what to put first, I prefer mainstream-application as the major criterion in cases like this.


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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
[This message has been edited by Ribannah (edited November 12, 2000).]

[DarkCloud]

For cutting Renaissance techs:

Colonialism- Not truly a technology; a way of thinking.
Empiricism- same; actually it is the same thing as well.

Romanticism- cut; 'The Sydney opera house was built in the 20th century'

Enlightenment- can stay; even though it is a way of thinking it encompasses Leonardo Da Vinci, etc; perhaps rename it "Invention"

Crop Rotation- belongs in the period before Renaissance, I believe.

Trias Politica- Please explain this.

[wernazuma]

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud on 11-12-2000 01:02 PM For cutting Renaissance techs: Colonialism- Not truly a technology; a way of thinking. Empiricism- same; actually it is the same thing as well.

If empiricism isn't an advance, what else is?
Philosophy isn't a tech either, it's a way of thinking first developed by the greeks...
Empiricism is so fundamental to all modern sciences we can't just ignore it. what do you mean by "actually it is the same thing as well"?

Colonialism: I agree, not a tech but either a way of thinking.
colonialism shouldn't belong to the tech list however...

quote: Romanticism- cut; 'The Sydney opera house was built in the 20th century'

huh?

quote: Enlightenment- can stay;

thank you very much.

quote: even though it is a way of thinking it encompasses Leonardo Da Vinci, etc; perhaps rename it "Invention"

enlightenment and Leonardo da Vinci?
aren't we mixing humanism/renaissance with the Age of Reason here?

quote: Crop Rotation- belongs in the period before Renaissance, I believe.

definitely true

quote: Trias Politica- Please explain this.

Legislative Power, Jurisdictive P., Executive P.

S.Kroeze wrote about Trias Politica and Empiricism here



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Wernazuma alias Cheshirecat alias Wörn

Master Mind of the World of Arendra

[airdrik]

What you could do is have cannons come first, but they have a chance of backfireing and destroying the cannon until metalurgy.
Also you could have the first discovery of gunpowder adds 1 bonus to AT and FP of all catapult units in that civ because gunpowder was first used as incindery grenades launched from catapults.

The tech tree would be altered so that the 1st cannon comes w/gunpowder as well as the bonus to the catapult. Then firearms would come with gunpowder and ironworking, and gives the musketeer unit. Metalurgy with the same techs or with firearms and something else and results in the same thing.
[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited November 12, 2000).]

[KaiserIsak]

Its a good tree, but i think u could add alot of techs in each the categories, except for the first one. All the other could need both more techs, wonders and units.

[DarkCloud]

quote: posted November 12, 2000 16:42 quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud on 11-12-2000 01:02 PM For cutting Renaissance techs: Colonialism- Not truly a technology; a way of thinking. Empiricism- same; actually it is the same thing as well. quote: If empiricism isn't an advance, what else is? Philosophy isn't a tech either, it's a way of thinking first developed by the greeks... Empiricism is so fundamental to all modern sciences we can't just ignore it. what do you mean by "actually it is the same thing as well"?

What I meant was (The same reason as above)

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The reason I said that about Romanticisim is on his webpage he lists Romanticisim as the prequistice to building the Sydney Opera House.
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quote: quote: even though it is a way of thinking it encompasses Leonardo Da Vinci, etc; perhaps rename it "Invention" quote: enlightenment and Leonardo da Vinci? aren't we mixing humanism/renaissance with the Age of Reason here?

Well, there was the Renaissance in the mideval ages and the Age of Reason in the 19th century; perhaps you should just combine them is what I suggest.

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Thank you for the link.