Early start

[Jer8m8]

People have discussed starting as nomadic tribes. I suggest starting as a "nomads" unit. As you forage around, you occasionally will gain techs like "fire," "clubs" and "basic tools". Also, tribes will have pop numbers and will split after 10(tentative). After 4000 BC, if you have the right techs, you will be allowed to turn one or all of your nomad units into villages, from which you would have to research roads, irrigation and mining. Also, settlers shouldn't be able to farm-they should just build cities. Maybe "workers" would irrigate and build roads

[Jer8m8]

I think your tech tree, at least the part that is pre civ2, would perfectly fir in with what I am talking about. Finish the construction!

[QW1020]

The nomadic idea is good, but here are some modifications.
You should start with 1 nomads unit. It should move automaticaly to show that it is following the supply of food. When you reach a good site, a message will appear saying that the people have found a good place to settle. All of your nomads would form a single village. Also, while the nomads are wandering you should be able to aquire more nomads at random. Nomadic techs would all be survival based such as fire or spears.

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by QW1020 on 12-10-2000 06:05 PM The nomadic idea is good, but here are some modifications. You should start with 1 nomads unit. It should move automaticaly to show that it is following the supply of food. When you reach a good site, a message will appear saying that the people have found a good place to settle. All of your nomads would form a single village.

Historically, it makes little sense for nomads to settle if they haven't discovered agriculture. They would starve to death!

quote: Also, while the nomads are wandering you should be able to aquire more nomads at random. Nomadic techs would all be survival based such as fire or spears.

My idea is that Nomads get the resources of the square where they are at the beginning of the turn. This allows them to do research and gather valuables (gold). Each turn they need 1 food to survive, extra food allows the production (from shields) of additional Nomads or help them through deserts etc. Shields can also be used to build other units such as Warriors and Shamans.




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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Ribannah]

In My Complete Technology Tree I allow nomads to settle in villages upon the discovery of Agriculture.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

THis is an interesting idea, Ribb is right though, without agriculture, a village would not survive.

[Deity Dude]

Ribb - I love your tech tree good job. i like the nomda concept. what year would your civ start - probably around 10,000bc.

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude on 12-11-2000 02:58 PM Ribb - I love your tech tree good job. i like the nomda concept. what year would your civ start - probably around 10,000bc.

Thanx DD , the starting date sounds about right to me.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Jer8m8]

10,000 is good. Also, if there is weather, maybe there can be something preventing you from learning agriculture/village tech during the Ice Age. If you are in the higher lats, this will take longer than in the lower lats.

Another idea concerning nomads-after the 4th turn, what the three boxes farthest away that you explored will disappear. In other words, a nomad unit (you may have multiple) can only see what they have discovered within the last 4 turns

[Biddles]

quote: Originally posted by QW1020 on 12-10-2000 06:05 PM The nomadic idea is good, but here are some modifications. You should start with 1 nomads unit. It should move automaticaly to show that it is following the supply of food. When you reach a good site, a message will appear saying that the people have found a good place to settle. All of your nomads would form a single village.

But if the nomad unit is moving automaticaly, then why even bother to put it in? If you don't have any control over the unit then the game should just start when you do have control (i.e. when you found a village). I like the idea though. Maybe make it so that you can't travel where there isn't food. So, any civ nomad can travel on grassland and plains but only nomads who's civs are desert based can travel through desert squares (see the ideas on civ terrain bonuses).

[Tical_2000]

This is an enlightened idea that has produced a good discussion but here's THE QUESTION: How does this idea make the game more fun? I'm assuming you would be 'nomadding' around for only a few turns then you would eventually want to settle to play the actual game. And what's the difference between this and what civ has now? You begin with a settler, you found a city, and within a few turns you have units for exploration. Everything seems good here. My point you ask? My point is WHY FIX SOMETHING THAT ISN'T BROKEN???

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Jer8m8 on 12-11-2000 08:54 PM Another idea concerning nomads-after the 4th turn, what the three boxes farthest away that you explored will disappear. In other words, a nomad unit (you may have multiple) can only see what they have discovered within the last 4 turns

Yes, that was part of my idea, too. The Shaman (or maybe: Priest) unit - with Paganism - would be able to memorize old terrain.

Tical_2000: it makes the game more fun because it allows different early strategies (creating more nomads, building shamans and warriors or fast research towards Agriculture and City Council), partly depending on the terrain. In Civ2, some players like to do extensive exploration before choosing a site for their first city. This part of the game can be made more interesting (by allowing production and research) and set in a (pre-)historic context.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[DarkCloud]

The reason I am opposed to a tribal start is even though it is the 'beginning' of a civilization, it is still not a 'CIVILIZATION'

The name of this game is Civilization, not the Rise and Rule of Empires.

[Ribannah]

I propose a change of name, then.
Let's call Civ3 "Tribes Forever"

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Grumbold]

Like the mooted settle-the-solar-system endgame, I like the concept of starting nomadic but I don't see it fitting well within the Civ structure. Your first settler/city is thousands of people. A game of pre-history needs to deal on a scale of small tribal units of less than 50 people initially, dealing with the dangers of a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. One grassland or plains tile is probably ample roaming ground for their entire lives.

The timescale would need to be slow to appreciate their lives but fast to achieve scientific breakthroughs. It could certainly be made into a great game but I can't see it merging seamlessly into the start of Civ. Multiplayer would make the diverging scales worse if one got an early start at settling.