Population

[Flash]

Does anyone know how many citizens are in a poulation point? or how men are in a military unit?

Also, I think my coworker might be thinking of CTP2, but does the city radius expand beyond 20 squares? He claims it expanded again after he reached a population of around 25.

[vmxa1]

Cities can only have 21 workable tiles.

[fittstim]

Well of course a city can have a population over 20. In fact, most of my cities get up into the ten's of millions. But of course, I assume you mean city size. In my games I achieve a city size in the high 30's lower 40's for most of my cities after I start building RR's everywhere.

The population assigned to a city of SIZE XX varies depending on XX. I believe a city starts out with a pop of 10,000 (don't quote me, I'm going with my memory from CivII). As the population of the city grows, the city size grows - but the growth is non-linear. Maybe it's multiplicative (10k, 20k, 40k etc) but I can't check this out right now.

Although you can have a city with a size greater than 20, all of these additional "citizens" must be either tax collectors, scientists, or entertainers. None of them can create additional shields, commerce or food by working the land (since there is no new land to work).

The "cultural" borders can certainly expand after a city has reached 20 (or greater). The expansion is based on the culture points of the city. They expand at 10, 100, 1000, 10.000, 100.000 etc. I'm not sure if it's possible to reach 100.000 but I've exceeded 10.000 in my capital city.

However, this only means that the city's cultural borders have expanded. The city workers (== the city SIZE) can't actually utilize these new squares. They are shaded out in the city screen. So your empire continues to expand but you can't exploit this new territory without a new city.

[Tattila the Hun]

This is good for resources, you don't have to have the resource in workable tile to use it, only inside your cultural borders.

[vmxa1]

Actually a city is not guarantee to have 21 tiles that are workable in its radus as some could be overlapped by anoter city and hence not useable. The cities population is limited by the amount of food you have to feed the pop (if you have the prereq structures such as hospitals). Culture will coninue to be generated every turn based on the the cities properties (wonders/structures).

[Datajack Franit]

So what's the highest pop you can have? 33-35?

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
So what's the highest pop you can have? 33-35?

Actually, you can have city sizes well over a thousand. Someone at CFC discovered this cheat a while ago. Just add workers to the city in huge numbers, as you can only lose one pop point per turn.

[bongo]

In civ2 the formula for calculating citizens is p=10000*n*( (n+1)/2 ) where n is population points.

Civ3 use the same formula but also take into account the contents of the food box. The formula becomes p=10000*n*( (n+1)/2 ) + f*1000 where f is number of food in the box.

As for ctp2, yes it's cities expanded beyond 21 squares. Haven't played it for a while but I'm pretty sure I had cities which worked over 70 tiles.

[theNiceOne]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
So what's the highest pop you can have? 33-35?

If you mean the highest pop a sity can grow to by itself, the answer is 71 - if it has access to 20 flood plains with wheat in its 20 workable squares (in addition to its city square). That's a bit extreme though...

But even a city that has access to grassland only, can get 4 food out of each square, and thus a total of 82 food when all 20 squares are worked on, meaning that it can support 41 citizens.

[bongo]

71 citizens!! Did you have any pollution problems in that city? Guess Not

[theNiceOne]

I have never had such a city, I only told you the theoretical maximum without manually adding workers/settlers.

I'm still looking forward to getting a starting position with 20 flood plains + wheat around my city. It would be fun to have a city that produced 102 extra food per turn at size 20. A pity that it would produce only one shield per turn though

[CiverDan]

Getting city sizes in a normal game of 43-45 is not out of the question, assuming you have all grass with a few cows/wheat.

[bongo]

theNiceOne , oops, misread your post a bit.

To lessen pollution problems I usually stop the growth of my cities around 25. A size 71 city could almost start global warming on its own. BTW, isn't flood plains safe from the effects of global warming?

[theNiceOne]

Originally posted by bongo
theNiceOne , oops, misread your post a bit.

To lessen pollution problems I usually stop the growth of my cities around 25. A size 71 city could almost start global warming on its own. BTW, isn't flood plains safe from the effects of global warming?

If you have mass transit in a city, then the total pollution from citizens will be one pollution triangle, regardless of how big the city is.

For the record, my cities seldom grow above 15. I generally build them so close that I get to use almost all squares with only size 12 cities. This is a huge benefit before hospitals can be built, and quite good later too, as it gives a very small pollution problem and it's easy to keep all cities in WLTKD. You don't get any single powerhouse city that way, but you get lots of decent ones.

[Trifna]

SoLuTiOn

I guess the solution to this would be to put this closer to reality by making workers that are eating. These workers are population, it's just that they work for the state. Thus it'd demand a reevaluation of the model to put it right.