Pillaging and sieges

[Trifna]

These two things are missing from Civ.

First: I mean, pillaging is one of the MAJOR (in fact maybe even before territory conquests) acts from civilizations. Mongols or Romans were doing it at the same time they were making conquests, bringing it all to THEIR people (aka their capitol, generals, bureaucrats, their merchants, etc.). It was done on their own territories also! (For nourrishing troops, for money, to terrorise and destroy economy). It's not like destroying improvement, it's getting profit from it and lot more than just imporvements!

Second: Sieges are the second way used for conquest of cities, obliging citizens to let go their city, walls, etc. Also to starve the people and stop the economy. Maybe it was even used more than directly taking the capitol, prefering to oblige the enemy to get out of the city to battle. A walled city is quite costly to take by direct attack in reality... Thus sieges, and thus richness of war history. Nice to use WITH pillaging

These two things are the nastiests and most important aspects of war.

Anyone with me? I'm sure I'll get at least UberKrux' support

[Patroklos]

I agree that you should get something for pillaging, maybe a gold equivalent to whatever you destroy (only for pillaging roads and mines, what would you get by pillaging a road?). Of course this would be for pillaging improvements only, not bombardment.

As far as sieging, I disagree with you because I do this all the time, especially in regicide ancient games. I often end up with a stack of units sitting next to an enemy city to a) wait for bombardment units to arrive or to do their work before the assault b)wait for reinforcments after an assault that didn't go my way c) force the enemy to anchor ther forces in defense of a city. As far as starving a city to death, I will place units over an enemy city's cattle/wheat sqares to starve it often, if the unit can be spared from the stack and can survive by itself (this depends on how large the war is).

[Trifna]

Sieges aren't about puting your tropps all around, it's about stoping anything coming from the outside or going outside. And it's about obliging the opponent to get OUT of the city and battle. No walls. There's nothing such in Civ 3.

Pillaging is not simply about destroying irrigation and roads. It's more about entering a city and make yourself big profit, taking all that has value, maybe also some kills. It's about steeling, taking the food (for troops), being a serious threat to economic growth since the victim has to start from scratch. Even napoleonian troops were taking food and all from where they passed. Of course, there's a few sort of pillaging: rampaging and destroying all, calmly taking all that has value, or only take food for troops (which killed alot of farmers in Middle Ages).

[Jaybe]

Consider that pillaging in support of the troops ("living off the land") is included in civ. It's just under the hood.

[Trifna]

Our troops are living off the land?... Nice!!