Catastrophes preventable by improvements

[Ralf]

In the old Civ-1 game, the granary-improvement saved you from reoccuring famines in that city. For some odd reasons, this idea of nature-disasters preventable by city-improvements was dropped in Civ-2.

I would like to see the idea revived in Civ-3. I think it should because it have a nice built-in anti-ICS effect. What do you guys think?

- Food-related improvements minimizes increasingly the effects of regurlary reoccuring famines. The more you have of them, the more famines are prevented.

- Health-related improvements (including Sewer-systems) minimizes increasingly the effects of regurlary reoccuring plagues. The more you have of them, the more plagues are prevented.

Its important that these disasters are *regurlary* reoccuring (every xx turn) in for example 10-20% of all your cities (selected by chance). Just like in historic reality. Othervise, most cheat-player are likely to just reload a previously saved game.

Any more nature-disasters preventable by this or that city-improvement?

[N35t0r]

When near to rivers, an otherwise useless improvement could lower the chance of floods, and with costly improvements to lower it even further.

[Builder]

Agree, this will make the game more realistic IMO.

[Adm.Naismith]

Sure!
Fire dept. = also in the past entire cities where sweept by fire (Rome, Los Angeles...)

Weather service = helps with modern ships and planes travel (increase trade revenue, because of reduced loss of cargo/passengers)

More improvements can follow...

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[Deathwalker]

Good idea. This would add to the realism

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I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow

[DarkCloud]

What would the catastrophies be, so far

Riots- Police Station, Aqueduct
Fires- Fire Dept.
Famines- Granary
Plague (-1 pop)- Sewer system

[Dauphin]

Volcanoes and earthquakes were in civ1 .. except you can't really defend against these.

[jdlessl]

For earthquakes, you need sound building design and maintenance. Nice idea, but it's a little too much micromanagement even for me! More in line with SimCity or something.

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Jared Lessl

[Roman]

Good idea, this ought to be revived from Civ I, though if you read one of the posts from firaxis they claim to have solved ICS already (they don't say how).

[Tiberius]

Yes, good idea.

Here's the list in my vision:

Riots (though it's not a natural catastrophe)- Temple, Colloseum, Cathedral, Police Station
Fires- Fire Dept.
Famines- Granary, Supermarket (completely eliminates famines, also adds +gold)
Plagues (-1 pop)- Aqueduct, Sewer system, Hospital (I think Firaxis shouldn't limit the growth of cities to 8 or 12, but increases the chances of diseases if the city has no aqueduct and/or sewer system)
Floods- Weather services (also increases trade revenue because of reduced loss of cargo/passengers, but only if you have harbour or airport in the city!!!). I'm sure there's more here, especially for ancient times, but right now I can't figure out what
Pollution- Recycling Center, Mass Transit, Fusion Plant. I think pollution should also increases the chances for floods, diseases, tornadoes.

OK. More???

[Adm.Naismith]

quote: Floods- Weather services (also increases trade revenue because of reduced loss of cargo/passengers, but only if you have harbour or airport in the city!!!)

Right. Good correction.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[airdrik]

floods-dams (dams stop flooding downstream altogether, but create reservoirs, a tile of 'ocean' square, or a widened stretch of the river depending on how it's implemented)

Other unstoppable disasters should be implemented and have things that lessen the blow, ex:
Hurricane-Damages everything in x amount of area, causes x amount of damage to population
Weather service reduces pop decrease to about 5%

Tornado-Desrtoys random buildings in one city(only one or two) as well as x amount of damage to pop
Weather service reduces pop decrease to .1%

Earthquake-damages buildings, causes x pop decrease(greater damages near source)
Improved building design reduces damages to 5% of total damage that would have been done.

Volcano-destroys up to 1 city, terrain=lava rock
Volcano detection systems allow pop to flee city before the volcano erupts, new city apears outside of reach of volcano w/99% of pop as first city or population in nearest city increases by the population of the city destroyed-1%

Tsuname-1 island is no more or a groop of ships in x area are destroyed or damage done to one costal city
Tsuname detection(weather service) allows ships/citizens to retreat before any damage is done.

comments, suggestions?

[Ralf]

Impressive list of suggestions.

Anyway, as i already implied - the idea of catastrophes/nature disasters can be implemented both in a bad, and in a good way:

The bad way: Random, unpredictable and unpreventable disasters. Such random acts of the AI often *only* leads to player-frustration and that reloading-a-saved-game routine.

The good way: non-random, predictable AND to a high degree *preventable* disasters.
The only random aspect should be that you dont know in which 10-20% of the improvement-lacking cities, its going to happen. (By the way: is 10-20% a good ratio?)

How often these disasters reoccurs should be dependent on game-levels and game-eras - thats obvious.

One thing is for sure: If Firaxis should revive this old Civ-1 idea in Civ-3, it must be very carefully tweaked and balanced: too many reoccuring disasters in too many cities early on in the game, and the player is likely to feel constantly backstabbed by the game-AI. Not fun at all!

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited January 16, 2001).]

[N35t0r]

yeah, and not everywhere...

Ignore this:

[Seeker]

Sure you could prevent earthquakes and volcanos! Just remember to pray to the CivGods...

"Volcano erupts near ___! Citizens demand TEMPLE!"