Wonders Of the World

[airdrik]

I didn't origonally have anything in mind, though it could be something like a local service provider, or just a connection to the internet for that city. Somehow the internet has to reach that city, it didn't just Boom and every city in a civ that gets the internet advance automatically has internet capabilities.
The Internet city improvement should probably be something cheap, though, because all you would need to do is convert the already existing phone lines so that they support the internet (maybe there could be an advance of The Phone which precedes the Internet, and the Telegraph before that)

[DarkCloud]

Zero- It should be a wonder and here is how:

for host civ +10% trade (USA) (yes I know Arpanet was usa, the Internet was in greece or somewhere else in europe.)
for other civs +5% trade


Improvement- NO! If a city has telephones, it has the internet; (maybe not for everyone, but for those in power)

[Dauphin]

quote: yes I know Arpanet was usa, the Internet was in greece or somewhere else in europe.

Arpanet was a forerunner of the internet and it was the world wide web that was designed in Europe (at CERN to be specific). The web is an extension to the internet allowing more than just text based e-mails to be sent over networks

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Drakenred on 11-15-2000 11:32 AM Internet: 5% chance each turn of gaining a forigien Advance. the problem with "Gaine a Foreign Advance" wonders, is that the player who is ahead in the game will want to build it to keep it out of the hands of others who are behind.

GOSH DARNIT! How many times do I have to say, "DON'T MAKE THE INTERNET A WONDER!!!" This is highly unrealistic as the Internet is NOT governed by a single authority. It is made up of world wide interconnected networks; each of these networks are owned by different people, organizations, etc. And it leaves open the possibility of other techs such as Encryption, E-Commerce, and Advanced Telecommunications, all that which take advantage of the Internet.


I just sure hope that Sid doesn't lose his mind and make the Internet a wonder.

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Zero
[This message has been edited by Zero_Tolerance (edited November 15, 2000).]

[DarkCloud]

ARPANET was the direct ancestor of the internet, but an European made the 'internet' accessable to the world populace for free.

[Shogun Gunner]

Let's be honest, what is the Internet to most people anyway?

1. A faster newspaper.

2. A different, slower, more convenient way to buy things.

3. A different, faster way to communicate with friends/family.

TRADE
How does the Internet improve trade? The "faster newspaper" just shifts readers from traditional news sources to new news sources. That might be a wash -- no net gain. The same for buying things. Instead of going to local grocery store, go to Peapod.com...what's the increase in trade? People still eat the same amount of food. On number 3, the US Post Office losses out to AOL. Where's the trade increase here? Postage down, ISP membership fees up.

SCIENCE
As for as improving science research, isn't it really computers that drive cutting edge research. I don't think leading scientist are achieving their breakthroughs on AOL chat!

HAPPINESS
If anything the Internet should lead to 50% higher happiness. All the dudes of your civ get their porn faster and cheaper. Then again, that might be counteracted by the other 50% being pissed at their boyfriends/husbands!

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner on 11-18-2000 09:44 PM SCIENCE As for as improving science research, isn't it really computers that drive cutting edge research. I don't think leading scientist are achieving their breakthroughs on AOL chat!

Actually, no, but I'm sure scientists get information through research on the Internet, and communicate through e-mail and chat(not necessarily AOL chat). Researching the Internet makes information easier to access, while e-mail and chat allows scientists to communicate more conveniently and freely. But not only is the Internet useful to scientists, it is an educational benefit for all.

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Zero
[This message has been edited by Zero_Tolerance (edited November 18, 2000).]

[Shogun Gunner]

Yes, scientist can communicate faster with each other, but I still reject that as being signicant. Most scientists are located together in facilities. National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland for example.

When scientist are not located together, why wouldn't the fax machine and/or phone provide the same increase of information sharing? If you just had to send pictures before the Internet existed, it would get from one scientist to another within two or three days.

Zero, I agree. Obviously, the Internet does increase the speed of volume of communication. This does improve any effort that can take advantage of the medium. However, I don't think it should be overstated.

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Yes, scientist can communicate faster with each other, but I still reject that as being signicant. Most scientists are located together in facilities. National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland for example. When scientist are not located together, why wouldn't the fax machine and/or phone provide the same increase of information sharing? If you just had to send pictures before the Internet existed, it would get from one scientist to another within two or three days.

Well, it's simple. The fax machine and phone can add up long-distance charges, as well as sending postal mail. It costs money, and scientists have to spend money on their research and projects. With the Internet, however, research is free and projects are not set back by additional unnecessary costs. It's cheaper to do business via the Internet and therefore that is what should have an impact on the science rate.

quote: Zero, I agree. Obviously, the Internet does increase the speed of volume of communication. This does improve any effort that can take advantage of the medium. However, I don't think it should be overstated.

Of course it shouldn't be overstated! And the Internet still has a ton of room for growth! That's why the Internet should impact the science rate only gradually as it grows and grows and grows and grows some more and keeps on growing. Though, it should probably stop at a 100% increase, effectively doubling the science rate, otherwise it effects may be too drastic on gameplay.

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Zero
[This message has been edited by Zero_Tolerance (edited November 19, 2000).]

[Dauphin]

quote: When scientist are not located together, why wouldn't the fax machine and/or phone provide the same increase of information sharing?

If you have a website you don't have to send anything, be it faxes or phone calls or even e-mails, and you reach a much wider audience. One website covers millions, a single fax only one workgroup. It quickens cross-references aswell. Give an address and you can have the required publication in seconds rather than days.
[This message has been edited by Big Crunch (edited November 19, 2000).]

[Harlequin]

quote: Originally posted by Zero_Tolerance on 11-12-2000 04:37 PM NO! NO! NO! Don't make the Internet a wonder! That is so unrealistic. Make it an advance! The Internet is made up world wide interconnected networks and should not be confined to a single nation! Plus, it fits in with other good tech ideas like SSL Encryption and E-Commerce.

Acually the US does control the internet. Even tho our friends across the pond refuse to accept it. If we cut them off from our backbone, the internet would cease to exist as they know it. jfyi

Harle

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Harlequin on 11-19-2000 01:31 PM Acually the US does control the internet. Even tho our friends across the pond refuse to accept it. If we cut them off from our backbone, the internet would cease to exist as they know it. jfyi Harle

Nope! Wrong again. Check out these
Internet Backbone Maps. . .

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Zero

[paulmagusnet]

Most things built by Man have unintended consiquences. It may be nice to have some random effects associated with 'Wonder' construction, including nothing.

Many 'Wonders' of the modern age are not wonders at all to the extent that they can be duplicated and used by most other civilizations.

The often abused example of the internet for one.

Statue of liberty is unique because it means something, you could build an identical statue in mongolia without that same effect. (The statue could cause immigration from unhappy cities to your civilization).

Before deciding on specific wonders, it is necessary to have some guiding principal as to what makes a wonder effective and usable only by the Civ that posseses it.

Perhaps also a 'Sub-Wonder' catagory is necessary, for big expensive things you only need one of in a civilization.

By the way, is this a Civ ToT, Civ CTP or new weird Civ post???