United Nations and the Democratic Peace?? Inaccurate Modeling

[Imran Siddiqui]

Nice discussion. I like Harel's ideas. Maybe this should be continued at the OT (that is where all my posts are from ). ICQ me sometime as well.

[Steve Clark]

Someone told me about this thread - had to see it to believe it.

I am not capable of discussing political theories, so I only have one reply to CivNation: Humble yourself in the Name of our Lord and present yourself as a servant to others, as our Lord did.

[CivNation]

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark on 03-20-2000 01:56 PM Someone told me about this thread - had to see it to believe it. I am not capable of discussing political theories, so I only have one reply to CivNation: Humble yourself in the Name of our Lord and present yourself as a servant to others, as our Lord did.

Steve,

Humbling yourself in the Name of the Lord means preaching His gospel with truth and sincerity. It does not mean defending the heathens, which your post appears to have done. Rather than humbling yourself before the LORD, you have helped His enemies shake their fists in His face. If you're going to post, please defend Christ and not the heathen who wish to remove Christianity from society: you are only helping them. I understand you may sincerely believe, but you must learn what true love is. True love is not keeping your mouth shut and defending the heathen when they assail Christ's rule among the nations. True love is serving God first by defending His gospel, and then serving your enemies; knowing that God will destroy His.

[CivNation]

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark on 03-20-2000 01:56 PM Someone told me about this thread - had to see it to believe it. I am not capable of discussing political theories, so I only have one reply to CivNation: Humble yourself in the Name of our Lord and present yourself as a servant to others, as our Lord did.

It never ceases to amaze me. The present state of our apostate church has produced whimp Christians, people that the Puritans put to shame. Steve, I am NOT calling you a whimp Christian, but I do believe you have been taken in by the pluralist attitude of the present society. It is not the Spirit of Christ that motivates a defense of the heathen, but a spirit that is contrary to Him. Steve, if you really love Christ, you will defend His claims right now in this chatboard. If you do not love Christ, you will continue making shot comments at fellow brothers who are defending Him, while keeping your mouth shut at all other times. That is not how Christianity progresses. Christianity progresses when people hear the Word and believe it. True love is love to God and His service first, then service to others. You serve others by preaching the gospel. Please take this to heart. The children of God are not the servants of the heathen, they are the servants of their fellow bretheren. Christ did not come to serve the heathen, Christ came to serve the elect. Yes we are to be kind to our enemies despite all persecution, trusting God that His providence will give the saints victory. God will utterly destroy the wicked.

[Steve Clark]

In my very short post, I only said to humble yourself. Nothing more, nothing less. You can present your arguments humbly, in the sprit of love. Afterall, you are addressing other human beings and the only approach is that of love for that person, not necessarily of what they believe. That is the attitude of a servant.

I apologize for prolonging this OT conversation.

[korn469]

quote: Christ did not come to serve the heathen, Christ came to serve the elect. Yes we are to be kind to our enemies despite all persecution, trusting God that His providence will give the saints victory. God will utterly destroy the wicked.

CivNation

i always thought Christ came to redeem man from his sins, and that we are all sinners except for the grace of god, which anyone can call on if they only have faith

at least that what i thought christianity was all about

korn469

[CivNation]

Korn,

Yes that is absolutely correct. You just have to add one more factor, its that Christ did not come to save all sinners. If you're new to the faith you probably are not very familiar with it, but there is something known as predestination. Ephesians 1 and Romans 9, as well as many many other places, make this truth very clear. Christ came only to save His sheep, He did not come to save all people, nor does God will to save all people. God will have mercy on whomever He wishes. God has not chosen to give everyone a chance at mercy. God DOES wish to save EVERY LAST ONE of all of the elect, and He WILL do so because His call is irresistable.

Those who are the elect will hear the gospel and believe it. Because we do not know who these people are, we are to treat all of the heathen as our potential brothers. What I am trying to demonstrate to Steve is the nature of Christian behavior. Christ does not want us, and never wanted us, to cowtow to unbelievers. Christ wants us to treat them with love and respect, as we should any neighbor. That is done by preaching the gospel first and foremost. It is NOT done by lying to the heathen and telling them that their point of view is just as good as the Christian point of view, and it also is not done by keeping Christianity out of conversation and making it only a "private" affair. Christ has guaranteed He will subdue and conquer all nations with the gospel, it is not done with Christians who are afraid of the heathen and what they will do. We must seek strength from God. The first commandment is to love God, that must be the Christians emphasis.

[CivNation]

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark on 03-20-2000 03:02 PM In my very short post, I only said to humble yourself. Nothing more, nothing less. You can present your arguments humbly, in the sprit of love. Afterall, you are addressing other human beings and the only approach is that of love for that person, not necessarily of what they believe. That is the attitude of a servant. I apologize for prolonging this OT conversation.

Steve,

Maybe what I'm asking for is something more, putting it in your own words. Why are you apologizing for continuing to talk about the King of the Universe as well as of this chatboard- Jesus Christ? Don't apologize for your faith Steve, present it! God richly bless you brother.

[Steve Clark]

Ah, my brother, you misunderstood what I was apologizing for! But let's move beyond that. In presenting the truth of the gospel to others, do it in the spirit of love, not with name calling or tearing down others as a person.

[Steve Clark]

sorry, slow network
[This message has been edited by Steve Clark (edited March 20, 2000).]

[Steve Clark]

sigh...
[This message has been edited by Steve Clark (edited March 20, 2000).]

[CivNation]

The insinuation that Christianity and rational thought do not coincide is nothing more than antichristian propoganda from people who claim neutrality in the religious sphere. Of course any true christian knows that those who are not for Christ are against Him.

Considering that I go to an Ivy League University and am triple majoring, I think its safe to say my rational thought capabilities are quite intact thank you very much.

Separating Christianity from state politics is not off topic in the least to answer your other objection. In fact, to those who have been convinced by the scriptural evidence that the God of the New Testament and Old Testament scriptures is real, it is impossible to divorce Him from the affairs of the nations. Therefore, your point on my posts being offtopic when it comes to the question of simulating civilization is entirely unsupported. The greatest statesmen in history have often had Christianity foremost on their mind when making decisions. Examples of this can be found in everyone from Bismarck (a devout Lutheran) to our founding fathers in their designing of state and federal constitutions.

Finally, I really wish you wouldn't feel sorry for me, because I am quite fortunate to have the mercy of God in Christ, something which no one deserves. I do however feel sorry for you, understanding that outside of Christ you have no hope for salvation. I will sincerely pray that God through Christ would have mercy on you and save you. God bless you!

[CivNation]

The ignorance of the antichristian lobby never ceases to amaze me. Their savior is nothing other than the complete secularization of society, as if Western Civilization owes its success to its secularism rather than God. This of course is putrid nonsense, and is easily demonstrated by the historical facts. Indeed, when certain individuals like the one two notes above mention that Christianity has clouded my thought capacity and ability to reason, it seems this human being who embraces reason has left it a long time ago. He seems to forget that the greatest Universities were founded by Christians in accordance with Christian ideals, he fails to realize that the greatest nations in the history of the world have been Christian, he also fails to realize the incredible logical consistency of the Christian religion. To keep on topic, civilization would not be where it is today if it were not for the Christian religion. Civilization has been built on Christian institutions (schools to governments) and Judeo Christian principles. Opposing Christ will not only get you nowhere, it will destroy you.

[Imran Siddiqui]

quote: Someone told me about this thread - had to see it to believe it.

Substitute forums for thread and you have Apolyton .

But please, this is not the place for this. The Off-Topic Forum is...

[CivNation]

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark on 03-20-2000 04:27 PM sigh... [This message has been edited by Steve Clark (edited March 20, 2000).]

Steve, don't be upset. Trust and obey. Preach the gospel unfailingly. Disagreements about government theory does not mean I despise the people I'm talking to, whether Imran or others. Relax brother relax. Gods speed.