Unhappy starting city with 3 population?

[ArmaGeddin]

OK, I just started a game on Monarch level. I'm still in Depotism, and I have a total of 5 cities in a circle around my capital. Two of my cities have a population of three and are static, ie.... not growing. I have the A/I managing the city mood, and they both have one entertainer each. I have one Spearman in each city, and I just placed a Temple in each city.

Now I can't understand how I could still need an entertainer in these cities if I have a Temple and a Spearman in each! I thought the Temple would turn one citizen to happy, and the Spearman would turn one to happy I get three happy by default in Monarch mode, so how could there still be unhappy citizens in those cities?

I'm not at war, and I have not pop-rushed in those cities.

Is there any way to check what is causing a city to be unhappy?

[vmxa1]

Temples do not make citizens happy, they make one unhappy pop content. Lux make happiness. Are those cities connected to the capitol? any lux hooked up yet? Never let the the run your cities in the ealry game. To see how they feel click on one. It will probably say it is too crowded.

[ArmaGeddin]

Hmmm..... I only have one Lux hooked up, but it is hooked up to all my cities.


Why would a citizen be "overcrowded" ?

[Catt]

You really shouldn't have any unhappy citizens if it is as you described.

On Monarch, your first 2 citizens are born content.
A spearman acts as military police, adding 1 content.
A temple makes one content.
And a lux makes one content move to happy (allowing an unhapy, if necessary).

Based on that, you should be able to grow to 5 citizens without any entertainers.

As vmxa1 said, click on the citizen's face (at the bottom of the city view) and you'll get an explanation as to why they're unhappy.

But also take away control of moods from the AI and see if you actually need an entertainer. I have sometimes seen the AI create and entertainer, and then seemingly "forget" that it is no longer needed (i.e., in you situation, maybe a city grew to size 3 before the spearman or temple arrived and the AI created an entertainer, but hasn't yet reassessed whether one is necessary) -- this can be frustrating, because sometimes it seems that the governors only reassess a situation when population grows or shrinks, or when entertainment spending is adjusted. Best advice is not to let the AI governors manage your cities early.

Catt

[ArmaGeddin]

OK, ill roll over the pop tonight and see why they are unhappy. I did not realize you could do that and it will more than likely answer my question.

I also thought that with 3 pop a troop and a temple the city should be happy. In fact, ALL my other cities ARE happy.

[vmxa1]

Ever do any pop rushing in that city?

[Mad Bomber]

Catt:

Also with the governors, they Often fail to assign workers appropriately. eg. Build a harbor in a city with tundra, you have to go in manually to set one of the laborers to work the sea tile.

[bongo]

Governors can be very useful cause they save you a lot of micromanagement but they are not as effective as a human. Myself I wait to turn them on until I really need them. When I reach 10-15 cities with an representative government is about the right time. I often turn them off for special occasions like a wonder-race or when I want to starve a city down.

They are sometimes a bit slow and don't change worker orders until next turn.

BTW, my standard governor setting is manage mood, optimize production and commerce(but not food)

[Tattila the Hun]

Starve a city! That's horrible. Why don't you build settlers instead?

[Pyrodrew]

Starve a city! That's horrible. Why don't you build settlers instead?

Not sure bongo starves his cities, but I starve some of mine too. If I conquer a foreign city, but don't want to Raze it (new territory an AI may take & the city may have buildings or a wonder already built). Abandon & replace with a new Settler means I have to take productivity & people away from 1 of my current cities - which sometimes is a better alternative, but not always. Foreign citizens complain too much about their 'mother homeland' & when cities flip back it is often those where the # of foreign citizens are highest - from my experience anyways. I don't want to build foreign Settlers (even to disband), since that takes more time/money. I try to build workers 1st, but if the city is corrupt, I have too many workers, and/or do not feel like paying 80 gold for a worker - Starvation is the best choice. But I prefer not to use the ugly word Starvation... since I pull all the foreign citizens up & Scientists appear, I see it as "donating their bodies to science." How else am I going to find the cure for cancer?
I'm thinking here is what some looked like before the... scientific tests...

[bongo]

"Donating their bodies to science"

Cities with foreign citzens are simply easier to control if there are only one of them

[Mad Bomber]

Pyrodrew:

Just build the settler from the city you plan to replace, sure it will be a foreign citizen when the new city is founded but he will be assimilated in short order. Because you have replaced the old city with a new city the asimilation process will begin in the turn the new city is founded (and you have eliminated the enemy civ's culture, so there is little chance for a flip).

[Pyrodrew]

Building settlers still can take more time and/or money than a quick starvation - especially in heavily corrupt foreign cities.
And sometimes the foreign civilization is still alive.

[ArmaGeddin]

I checked the city tonight and they are pissed because I pop rushed and because they are crowded.

How long until the pop rush effects wear off? Also, what is this "crowding" they are talking about?

[Catt]

Re: Unhappy starting city with 3 population?

Originally posted by ArmaGeddin on 11/18
I'm not at war, and I have not pop-rushed in those cities.

Originally posted by ArmaGeddin on 11/20
I checked the city tonight and they are pissed because I pop rushed and because they are crowded.

Makes it hard to diagnose a problem when the symptoms and circumstances aren't accurately described .

How long until the pop rush effects wear off? Also, what is this "crowding" they are talking about?

Pop-rushing makes one citizen unhappy for 20 turns (per pop rushed). I can't remember if the penalty is paid concurrently or consecutively, but I do know that if only one pop remains but many "20-turn penalties" remain that they will continue consecutively (so it could last for many, many turns).

The "crowding" is just generic unhappiness. It is a meaningless reason that really only serves to highlight that they're not unhappy due to pop-rushing ("we cannot forget the cruel oppression. . ."), drafting ("No more draft! Hell no, we won't go . . ."), war weariness ("Give peace a chance. . ."), or nationality issues ("Stop the aggression against our mother country. . . ").

Catt

EDIT: Corrected citizen comments.