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In the beginning: An article about Ancient Civilization

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  • In the beginning: An article about Ancient Civilization

    The thought crosses my mind about when should Civilization III begin in a normal game: 4,000 B.C., 5,000 B.C., 6,000 B.C., 7,000 B.C., or maybe even 8,000 B.C. Perhaps the player(s) should be able choose when to begin. Anyway, here is an article on Ancient Civilization from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia 1998. Please read it, and then you decide:

    ANCIENT CIVILIZATION. The term civilization basically means the level of development at which people live together peacefully in communities. Ancient civilization refers specifically to the first settled and stable communities that became the basis for later states, nations, and empires.
    The study of ancient civilization is concerned with the earliest segments of the much broader subject called ancient history. The span of ancient history began with the invention of writing in about 3100 BC and lasted for more than 35 centuries. Mankind existed long before the written word, but writing made the keeping of a historical record possible (see Human Origins).
    The first ancient societies arose in Mesopotamia and Egypt in the Middle East, in the Indus Valley region of modern Pakistan, in the Huang He (Yellow River) valley of China, on the island of Crete in the Aegean Sea, and in Central America. All of these civilizations had certain features in common. They built cities, invented forms of writing, learned to make pottery and use metals, domesticated animals, and created fairly complex social structures with class systems.
    Apart from written records and carved inscriptions, the knowledge about ancient peoples is derived from the work of archaeologists. Most of the significant archaeological findings have been made in the past 200 years. The Sumerian culture of Mesopotamia was discovered in the 1890s, and some of the most important archaeological digs in China were made after the late 1970s. (See also Archaeology.)
    Agriculture--The Basis of Civilization
    The single, decisive factor that made it possible for mankind to settle in permanent communities was agriculture. After farming was developed in the Middle East in about 6500 BC, people living in tribes or family units did not have to be on the move continually searching for food or herding their animals. Once people could control the production of food and be assured of a reliable annual supply of it, their lives changed completely.
    People began to found permanent communities in fertile river valleys. Settlers learned to use the water supply to irrigate the land. Being settled in one place made it possible to domesticate animals in order to provide other sources of food and clothing.
    Farming was a revolutionary discovery. It not only made settlements possible--and ultimately the building of cities--but it also made available a reliable food supply. With more food available, more people could be fed. Populations therefore increased. The growing number of people available for more kinds of work led to the development of more complex social structures. With a food surplus, a community could support a variety of workers who were not farmers.
    Farming the world over has always relied upon a dependable water supply. For the earliest societies this meant rivers and streams or regular rainfall. The first great civilizations grew up along rivers. Later communities were able to develop by taking advantage of the rainy seasons.
    All of the ancient civilizations probably developed in much the same way, in spite of regional and climatic differences. As villages grew, the accumulation of more numerous and substantial goods became possible. Heavier pottery replaced animal-skin gourds as containers for food and liquids. Cloth could be woven from wool and flax. Permanent structures made of wood, brick, and stone could be erected.
    The science of mathematics was an early outgrowth of agriculture. People studied the movements of the moon, sun, and planets to calculate seasons. In so doing they created the first calendars. With a calendar it was possible to calculate the arrival of each growing season. Measurement of land areas was necessary if property was to be divided accurately. Measurements of amounts--for example, of seeds or grains--was also a factor in farming and housekeeping. Later came measures of value as commodity and money exchange became common.
    The use of various ways of measuring led naturally to record keeping, and for this some form of writing was necessary. The earliest civilizations all seem to have used picture-writing--pictures representing both sounds and objects to the reader. The best known of the ancient writing systems is probably Egyptian hieroglyphics, a term meaning "sacred carvings," since many of the earliest writings were inscribed on stone.
    All of the major ancient civilizations--in Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and China-- emerged in the 4th millennium BC. Historians still debate over which one emerged first. It may well have been the Middle East, in an area called the Fertile Crescent. This region stretches from the Nile River in Egypt northward along the coast of former Palestine, then eastward into Asia to include Mesopotamia. In this area people settled along the riverbanks and practiced field agriculture. This kind of farming depended on the reproduction of seed, normally from grain crops.


    Mesopotamia
    Mesopotamia (from a Greek term meaning "between rivers") lies between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, a region that is part of modern Iraq (see Mesopotamia). By about 5000 BC, small tribes of farmers had made their way to the river valleys. On the floodplains they raised wheat, barley, and peas. They cut through the riverbanks so that water for their crops could flow to lower lying soil.
    These early irrigation systems were more fully developed by the Sumerians in Mesopotamia, who drained marshes and dug canals, dikes, and ditches. The need for cooperation on these large irrigation projects led to the growth of government and law. The Sumerians are thus credited with forming the earliest of the ancient civilizations.
    The land of the Sumerians was called Sumer (Shinar in the Bible). Their origins are shrouded in the past. They were not Semites, like most of the peoples of the region; they spoke a language unrelated to other known tongues. They may have come to southern Mesopotamia from Persia before 4000 BC.
    Sumerian towns and cities included Eridu, Nippur, Lagash, Kish, and Ur. The cities differed from primitive farming settlements. They were not composed of family-owned farms, but were ringed by large tracts of land. These tracts were thought to be "owned" by a local god. A priest organized work groups of farmers to tend the land and provide barley, beans, wheat, olives, grapes, and flax for the community.
    These early cities, which existed by 3500 BC, were called temple towns because they were built around the temple of the local god. The temples were eventually built up on towers called ziggurats (holy mountains), which had ramps or staircases winding up around the exterior. Public buildings and marketplaces were built around these shrines.
    The temple towns grew into city-states, which are considered the basis of the first true civilizations. At a time when only the most rudimentary forms of transportation and communication were available, the city-state was the most governable type of human settlement. City-states were ruled by leaders, called ensis, who were probably authorized to control the local irrigation systems. The food surplus provided by the farmers supported these leaders, as well as priests, artists, craftsmen, and others.
    The Sumerians contributed to the development of metalworking, wheeled carts, and potter's wheels. They may have invented the first form of writing. They engraved pictures on clay tablets in a form of writing known as cuneiform (wedge-shaped). The tablets were used to keep the accounts of the temple food storehouses. By about 2500 BC these picture-signs were being refined into an alphabet. (See also Alphabet; Writing.)
    The Sumerians developed the first calendar, which they adjusted to the phases of the moon. The lunar calendar was adopted by the Semites, Egyptians, and Greeks. An increase in trade between Sumerian cities and between Sumeria and other, more distant regions led to the growth of a merchant class.
    The Sumerians organized a complex mythology based on the relationships among the various local gods of the temple towns. In Sumerian religion, the most important gods were seen as human forms of natural forces--sky, sun, earth, water, and storm. These gods, each originally associated with a particular city, were worshiped not only in the great temples but also in small shrines in family homes.
    Warfare between cities eventually led to the rise of kings, called lugals, whose authority replaced that of city-state rulers. Sumeria became a more unified state, with a common culture and a centralized government. This led to the establishment of a bureaucracy and an army. By 2375 BC, most of Sumer was united under one king, Lugalzaggisi of Umma.


    Babylon
    The Sumerians were conquered by their Semitic neighbors. But their civilization was carried on by their successors--the Akkadians, Babylonians, Assyrians, and Chaldeans.
    The Babylonians made distinct contributions to the growth of civilization. They added to the knowledge of astronomy, advanced the knowledge of mathematics, and built the first great capital city, Babylon. The Babylonian King Hammurabi set forth the Code of Hammurabi in about 1800 BC. (This was the most complete compilation of Babylonian law and one of the first great law codes in the world (see Hammurabi; Law).


    Egypt
    Egyptian farmers had settled in the long and narrow valley of the Nile River by 5000 BC. Within 2,000 years they had invented writing, built massive irrigation works, and established a culture that bequeathed the pyramids and other magnificent monuments to posterity. The primitive farming settlements of Egypt were concerned with the raising of vegetables, grains, and animals. These settlements slowly gave way to larger groupings of people. Probably the need to control the Nile floodwaters through dams and canals eventually led to the rise of government in the region.
    By the end of the prehistoric period before 3100 BC, Egypt was divided into two kingdoms. Lower Egypt had its capital at Buto, while Upper Egypt was centered at Hierakonpolis. In this period travelers brought in ideas from Sumeria, including the concepts of writing and the pottery wheel.
    Egyptian civilization began with the unification in 3100 BC of the upper and lower regions by King Menes. He established a new capital at Memphis. In this era the Egyptians developed the first 365-day calendar, discovered the plow, made use of copper, developed hieroglyphic writing, and began to build with stone. Trade and exploration flourished.
    The Egyptians were ruled by kings known as pharaohs who claimed to be descended from the god Horus. These kings, supported by a priestly class, lived in splendor; and they saw to it that after their deaths they would be buried in splendor. The tombs built for them were designed as storehouses to hold all the things that the kings would need in the afterlife.
    The earliest royal tombs foreshadowed the later great monuments, the pyramids. By about 2700 BC the first pyramid was built, in Saqqara. The three great pyramids still standing near Cairo were built between 2650 and 2500 BC.
    Early Egyptian history is divided into three major eras: the Old Kingdom (2700-2200 BC), the Middle Kingdom (2050-1800 BC), and the New Kingdom (1570-1090 BC). By the dawn of the Old Kingdom, the characteristics of Egyptian civilization had already been firmly established. The periods not accounted for by the dates are believed to be times of decline known as the Intermediate Periods.


    India
    The valley of the Indus River is considered to be the birthplace of Indian civilization. Located on the Indian subcontinent in modern Pakistan, the Indus civilization was not discovered by archaeologists until 1924. The ancient history of this region is obscured by legend. It appears, however, that by 4000 BC primitive farmers were raising vegetables, grains, and animals along the riverbank. By 2700 BC two major cities, Harappa and Mohenjo-daro, and numerous smaller towns had emerged.
    There is some evidence that Mesopotamian traders reached the early Indian people by sailing from Sumeria to the Indus Valley. While the Indians shared some developments--such as complex irrigation and drainage systems and the art of writing--with the people of Sumeria, they also developed a unique cultural style of their own.
    What little is known of the Indus civilization suggests that it had large cities that were well laid-out and well fortified. There were public buildings, palaces, baths, and large granaries to hold agricultural produce. The many artifacts and artworks found by archaeologists indicate that the residents of the Indus had reached a fairly high level of culture before their civilization was destroyed.
    According to the Rig Veda, the ancient Hindu scriptures written after about 1500 BC, Aryan invaders conquered the earliest Indian civilization. The Aryans, who were a nomadic people from the Eurasian steppes, imposed on Indian society a caste system, which persists to the present day in Hindu law. The caste system, which divides all people into social classes with differing rights and obligations, was a formal expression of the interdependent labor division seen in all civilizations (see Hinduism). By the 6th century BC at least 16 Aryan states had been established on the Indian subcontinent and Brahmanism was flourishing.


    Crete
    By about 2500 BC a civilization had emerged on the island of Crete in the Aegean Sea. Excavations in 1900 at the site of Knossos revealed the existence of a culture named by archaeologists as Minoan after a mythical king, Minos. Minoans probably settled in Crete before 3000 BC.
    There is evidence of outside influence in Crete; apparently Egyptian traders reached the Aegean Sea soon after the Minoans did. Nevertheless, Minoan civilization developed its own unique features, and by about 2000 BC, great cities with elaborate and luxurious palaces were built, and sea trade was flourishing.
    The Minoans had a picture-writing system, as had other ancient peoples. The Minoan religion seems to have centered on a mother goddess and on the figures of the bull and the snake. The Minoans are known for their beautiful and colorful wall paintings and their fine pottery. In about 1400 BC Minoan civilization began to decline. The end was hastened by invasions from mainland Greece.


    China
    The Chinese had settled in the Huang He, or Yellow River, valley of northern China by 3000 BC. By then they had pottery, wheels, farms, and silk, but they had not yet discovered writing or the uses of metals.
    The Shang Dynasty (1766-1122 BC) is the first documented era of ancient China. The highly developed hierarchy consisted of a king, nobles, commoners, and slaves. The capital city was Anyang, in north Henan Province. Some scholars have suggested that travelers from Mesopotamia and from Southeast Asia brought agricultural methods to China, which stimulated the growth of ancient Chinese civilization. The Shang peoples were known for their use of jade, bronze, horse-drawn chariots, ancestor worship, and highly organized armies.
    Like other ancient peoples, the Chinese developed unique attributes. Their form of writing, developed by 2000 BC, was a complex system of picture writing using forms called ideograms, pictograms, and phonograms. Such early forms of Chinese became known through the discovery by archaeologists of oracle bones, which were bones with writings inscribed on them. They were used for fortune-telling and record keeping in ancient China.
    The Chou Dynasty (1122-221 BC) saw the full flowering of ancient civilization in China. During this period the empire was unified, a middle class arose, and iron was introduced. The sage Confucius (551-479 BC) developed the code of ethics that dominated Chinese thought and culture for the next 25 centuries (see Confucius).


    Meso-America
    Meso-America is the term used to describe the ancient settlements of Mexico and Central America. Civilization arose in the Americas much later than in the Middle East. Whether Native Americans reinvented the tools of civilization, such as farming and writing, or whether they were brought from older societies is a topic of debate among scholars.
    The earliest elaborate civilization known in the Americas is that of the Olmec of central Mexico. The Olmec lived in the lowlands of present Veracruz and Tabasco states from about 1200 BC. They left artifacts ranging from tiny jade carvings to huge monuments such as the volcanic rock statues at San Lorenzo. These monuments suggest the existence of an organized and diverse society with leaders who could command the work of artisans and laborers. Other early civilizations in the Americas include the Chavin of Peru, the Chono of Chile, the Tehuelche of Argentina, the Tupians of Brazil, the Maya of the Yucatan Peninsula, and the Inca of Peru.

    Only four ancient civilizations--Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and China--provided the basis for continuous cultural developments in the same location. After the Minoan society on Crete was destroyed, its cultural traditions and legends passed into the life of mainland Greece. As for Meso-America, its cultures were submerged by the Spanish conquerors of the 16th century.



    FURTHER RESOURCES FOR ANCIENT CIVILIZATION

    Books for Children
    Adams, J.-P. Mediterranean Civilizations (Silver, 1987). Atkins, Sinclair. From Stone Age to Conquest (Dufour, 1986). Lambert, David. Ancient Peoples (Watts, 1987). Odjik, Pamela. The Ancient World (Silver, 1990).

    Books for Young Adults
    Age of God-Kings: Time Frame 3000-1500 BC. (Time-Life, 1987). Boardman, John and others, eds. The Oxford History of the Classical World (Oxford, 1986). Cotterell, Arthur, ed. The Penguin Encyclopedia of Ancient Civilizations (Penguin, 1989). Howe, Helen and Howe, R.T. The Ancient World (Longman, 1988). Lamberg-Karlovsky, C.C. and Sabloff, J.A. Ancient Civilizations: The Near East and Mesoamerica (Waveland, 1987). Larkin, P.J. The Ancient World (Dufour, 1983). McNeill, W.H. The Rise of the West (Univ. of Chicago Press, 1970) Thomas, C.G. The Earliest Civilizations: Ancient Greece and the Near East, 3000-200 BC (Univ. Press of America, 1982).

    -------------------------------------------------------
    From Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc.
    [This message has been edited by jrhughes98 (edited October 31, 2000).]

  • #2
    Sorry about the typo. The above document has been updated to be more readable.

    ------------------
    JRH

    Comment


    • #3
      Personally in my own opinion I believe that Civ3 should originally begin in 8,000 B.C., with the player(s) being able to choose to begin at a later date. Because of the gruelling slow pace of advancement in early human history and to keep games from lasting too long, each turn should be about 50-100 years to start instead of 20-50 years as it is in Civ2, depending on the level of difficulty.

      All civs in Civ3 should begin in a nomadic state, building only temporary huts or camps, and hunt wild animals for food and clothing. But as time goes by the animals will eventually be hunted to extinction in that area, and food and clothing (from the wool of animals) will begin run out. As it begins to get low, your people will begin to starve and/or freeze to death; your population will begin to dwindle and eventually reach zero and the game will end unless you move somewhere else where there are more wild animals to hunt.

      Only when your civ discovers secrets such as farming and domestication of animals does this period of nomadic ways come to an end, and permanent cities may be built. Unlike Civ2, when the discovery of refrigeration allows you to farm land, Civ3 should allow the secret of farming to be discovered in ancient times, because agriculture really is an ancient pastime. Farming should be a prerequisite of irrigation. Irrigation has a positive impact on farming. Perhaps in the renaissance, industrial, and modern ages, instead having to discover refrigeration to farm the land, perhaps discoveries such as pesticides and dry farming could increase the impact of farming, thus helping to grow your population more quickly.

      ------------------
      JRH
      [This message has been edited by jrhughes98 (edited October 31, 2000).]

      Comment


      • #4
        quote:

        Originally posted by jrhughes98 on 10-31-2000 04:00 PM
        Personally in my own opinion I believe that Civ3 should originally begin in 8,000 BC, with the player(s) being able to choose to begin at a later date. Because of the gruelling slow pace of advancement in early human history and to keep games from lasting too long, each turn should be about 50-100 years to start instead of 20-50 years as it is in Civ2, depending on the level of difficulty.

        All civs in Civ3 should begin in a nomadic state, building only temporary huts or camps, and hunt wild animals for food and clothing. But as time goes by the animals will eventually be hunted to extinction in that area, and food and clothing (from the wool of animals) will begin run out. As it begins to get low, your people will begin to starve and/or freeze to death; your population will begin to dwindle and eventually reach zero and the game will end unless you move somewhere else where there are more wild animals to hunt.

        Only when your civ discovers secrets such as farming and domestication of animals does this period of nomadic ways come to an end, and permanent cities may be built. Unlike Civ2, when the discovery of refrigeration allows you to farm land, Civ3 should allow the secret of farming to be discovered in ancient times, because agriculture really is an ancient pastime.



        Time and again I have argued for these proposals! In my opinion Civ should ideally start in 8000BC. Of course a player who doesn't like it should have the possibility to start later. Some time ago a posted this proposal:

        "I have always found the settler a rather artificial unit. Settlement organized by a government has always been the exception, not the rule. And in 4000BC, when the current CivII starts, almost the entire world was populated, except for some remote islands like Madagascar, Iceland and New Zealand. I still hope CivIII (orCivV) will introduce a rural population, living in villages. As soon as there are sufficient inhabitants in a particular area, small towns will develop, provided they have an agricultural style of living. Further growth should be caused by population growth, but most by migration.

        Starting with more than one settler would only accelerate the development of your Civ. My proposal would be to let a particular Civilization start with several small towns -only one of them ruled by you- that are not politically united. So you would be forced to aim for supremacy within your own Civilization before outward expansion became a realistic possibility. This would result in fierce competition from the start, being also more in accordance with historical reality."

        There is only one point where our views vary: in my opinion all turns should cost the same amount of time, whether they take up a hundred or just a single year. Slowing down of the passage of time as the game progresses is absolutely irrealistic!

        Thanks for the nice quote! I like them.
        Jews have the Torah, Zionists have a State

        Comment


        • #5
          quote:

          Originally posted by S. Kroeze on 10-31-2000 07:09 PM
          There is only one point where our views vary: in my opinion all turns should cost the same amount of time, whether they take up a hundred or just a single year. Slowing down of the passage of time as the game progresses is absolutely irrealistic!




          Irrealistic! Get real! As your civilization grows, things start to happen more rapidly than before. That's because with so many people, "there's a lot of action of going on." Money, Science, Productivity, expansion, etc.--all of these things begin to grow at a much faster rate. So turns should become more compressed as time goes on. Though you have brought up a good point; perhaps instead of time slowing down at certain points in the game, it should be based on world population, ie., the game would be very unbalanced if it was 5,000 B.C. to one civ and 100 A.D. to another.

          ------------------
          JRH
          [This message has been edited by jrhughes98 (edited October 31, 2000).]

          Comment


          • #6
            I think maybe this rural population thing would be good, but not for everyone..so maybe a version of it could be an option for players. As for the start date, I don't think it should be 8,000BC simply because the game is called Civilization, and real Civilization began around 4,000BC...with people settling down. I don't want to have the nomadic tribe type intro, it's just not right for the game.

            Also, the turns can't all be the same length, simply...if they are all 100, then WW2 would be pretty short, the hundred years war would be...well 1 turn. But, if they are all 1 year, it'd take forever to get to modern day. I do think that ancient time turns should be made shorter, maybe starting at 5 years a turn, and in modern day just one month or so a turn.

            Sorry if I rain on anyone's parade...great quotes jrhughes98.
            "Wise Men Talk because they have something to say, fools talk because they have to say something" - Plato

            Comment


            • #7
              ***JUST SOME MILESTONES IN HISTORY BEFORE 4,000 B.C.***

              8000 BC-1000 BC: New Stone Age, or Neolithic Era
              This era encompasses the first 7,000 years of human societies and coincides with the beginnings of agriculture. When people went from being hunters and gatherers to being nomads and herdsmen to being planters, new tools, or at least modifications of old ones, were needed at each stage. A primitive kind of plow was necessary to break the soil for planting. People used a sickle-like tool to cut grain stalks. People made flour by grinding grain between large, smooth stones.

              8000 BC-AD 1850: Age of Agriculture
              Apart from air and water, the most basic human need is for food. Adequate provision of this need for big populations has largely determined the course of civilization. When a group switches from hunting and gathering to settled farming, its population begins to increase. An increase in population makes it necessary for people to live in stable, permanent societies, such as villages or cities, that have complex social structures. Without food, everything fails. Thus most human societies have devoted huge efforts to assuring a reliable food supply. Ownership and management of land became highly significant in all early civilizations and remains so up to the present. Early governments became powerful because they managed the food supply, making sure the planting and harvesting were on schedule. When floods could wipe out crops or drought scorch the land, famine was an ever-present possibility and fear. In this more than 9,000-year period, food production was the main occupation of most people. Makers of other goods and traders were a small minority. Only in the middle of the 19th century, when the Industrial Revolution had shown the way to greatly increased agricultural productivity, did the Age of Agriculture come to an end. In underdeveloped areas of the world it persists, however. It endures wherever more people are involved in supplying food than in other occupations.

              8000 BC: Cultivation of grains
              With the cultivation of grains in the world's ancient river valleys, the age of agriculture began. This age occupied most of human history, lasting until about AD 1850, when modern industrialism succeeded it.

              The basic grains were wheat, rice, rye, oats, millet, and barley. Maize, commonly called corn, was not grown outside of the Americas until after the arrival of Christopher Columbus in the Western Hemisphere.


              8000 BC: Development of fermentation
              The processes for making wine and beer are about 10,000 years old. The process of creating an alcoholic beverage from honey or fruit juice or from a mixture of malted barley, hops, and water depends on the use of yeast. The purity of these processed beverages could be controlled by the people who made them.

              The fact that alcohol is an antiseptic remained unknown to the ancients, but they benefited from it nevertheless. In modern times, the study of the fermentation process led the French scientist Louis Pasteur to develop a germ theory of disease in the mid-19th century.


              7000 BC: Early use of pottery
              One of the oldest and most widely used human artifacts is pottery. This term refers both to the art of molding clay and firing it at a low temperature and to the dishes and other products resulting from this process.

              Pottery gave people durable vessels to use in cooking and as containers for storing food. Pottery also provided an excellent medium to express artistic ability. From simple earthenware to exquisite porcelain, pottery is still used for both utility and decoration. Ancient pottery is also one of the most useful finds for archaeologists in dating past cultures.


              6000 BC: Early use of linen
              Linen, which is made from the flax plant, is one of the oldest sources of textile materials. The cloth was used by prehistoric cave dwellers in Europe. Examples of linen cloth have been found in Egyptian tombs, where the material was wrapped around mummies.

              ***A NOTE ON ARCHERY***

              ARCHERY.The sport of archery--shooting arrows from bows at targets--has its roots in prehistoric times. Arrows were used by ancient peoples to battle their opponents and to hunt wild game. In some societies, people still use bows and arrows as weapons.

              No one knows exactly when the first bows and arrows were used. Researchers have found evidence of archery that leads many of them to believe that it originated in more than one place. Other evidence has been found that shows the use of bows and arrows by peoples in every part of the world except Australia. The earliest bows and arrows were probably used for hunting rather than warfare. They were very important to primitive hunters, who used them to kill game that could not be outrun.

              Archaeologists have found indications that people used hunting bows as long as 50,000 years ago in what is now Tunisia. Those early bows probably were wood branches or saplings cut into a "D" shape. To make the bowstring, primitive archers cut a long thong, or strip, from the hide of an animal. For arrows, they used straight sticks sharpened at one end. At the other end, they cut a notch so the arrow and bowstring fitted together snugly.

              Other evidence of prehistoric archery has come from cave drawings in Spain, France, and North Africa. These drawings, which date back thousands of years, show bows and arrows being used for hunting and warfare. Archery was also a sport in ancient Egypt, China, and India. The ancient Egyptians were famous for their skill with the bow. However, the most advanced bows of ancient times came from the Far East. Craftsmen there glued wood, bone, and animal tendons together to make extremely accurate and powerful bows.

              As the bow became a better weapon, it gained new importance in warfare. Military leaders began to use massed bowmen, who shot hundreds of arrows toward the enemy at the same time. The use of archery in warfare reached its peak in the Middle Ages with the English longbow. English bowmen used this effective weapon against the French during the Hundred Years' War, and their skill helped England become a world power.

              The bow began to have less importance in war after the invention of firearms. In 1595 the British army replaced the longbow with the gun. Through the years, archery in Europe, whether competitive or for hunting, became almost entirely a sport.

              The North American Indians, like other ancient peoples, used the bow and arrow for hunting and warfare. After the English and other Europeans settled in North America, the Indians rather rapidly adopted firearms, and archery was left to develop as a recreational activity.


              Archery continued in encyclopedia. . .

              ---------------------------------------------------------
              From Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc.
              [This message has been edited by jrhughes98 (edited November 01, 2000).]

              Comment


              • #8
                With the above in mind, I'd like to add that starting very early in the game (while your civ is still nomadic), your should need to build hunters, fisherman, and gatherers for food and clothing. Each unit hunts, fishes, or gathers on command in a particular tile. The success of each hunt, fish, or gathering depends largely on the type of terrain, the climate in the area, and for how long the tile has been continuously or almost continuously hunted, fished, or gathered. Eventually, the success of each hunt, fish, or gathering will become less and less as the resources in the tile are used up.

                ------------------
                JRH

                Comment


                • #9
                  Some early advances:

                  Fire
                  Stonecutting
                  Foraging (exploitation of forests)
                  Hunting (plains, grassland)
                  Herbal Lore
                  Herding
                  Farming (allows size 1 villages)
                  The Canoe (river travel)
                  The Rope
                  The Fishing Net (ocean)
                  The Calender
                  The Council (Town Hall, village can grow beyond size 1)

                  (And, of course, Roads, Mining and Irrigation)

                  ------------------
                  If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
                  A horse! A horse! Mingapulco for a horse! Someone must give chase to Brave Sir Robin and get those missing flags ...
                  Project Lead of Might and Magic Tribute

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                  • #10
                    As i always have said:

                    More Ancient turns is a must. First of all, the first farming advances should mostly affect farming on river tiles. More advances make it possible to exploit more types of terrain.
                    stuff

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think you should start much earlier than before, as a nomadic tribe. But you shouldn't build fishermen/hunters! Instead you should move around, and, after an staid amount of time, depending of the conditions on the place you are, your "mobile city" should be divided up in, let us say two. This would be like "this place aren't big enought for us all, we have to divide. You go!"

                      ------------------
                      Who am I? What am I? Do we need Civ? Yes!!
                      birteaw@online.no
                      Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
                      I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
                      Also active on WePlayCiv.

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                      • #12
                        Tribe splitting is a good idea, but that should be dependent upon population, not conditions of how much food/clothing is available. I still support hunters, gatherers and fishermen units; it would make the game more interesting and FUN!!!

                        ------------------
                        JRH

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:

                          Originally posted by chrispie on 10-31-2000 07:28 PM

                          Also, the turns can't all be the same length, simply...if they are all 100, then WW2 would be pretty short, the hundred years war would be...well 1 turn. But, if they are all 1 year, it'd take forever to get to modern day. I do think that ancient time turns should be made shorter, maybe starting at 5 years a turn, and in modern day just one month or so a turn.


                          I have heard this silly argument too often to be amused any longer. To my knowledge in CivII there is no WWII, nor WWI, even no Hundred Years' War. In CivII the Germans and French will never fight one another, because they are never both included in the same game! I know there is a scenario about the world wars, but we are now not discussing scenarios.

                          What does happen in current CivII is as follows:
                          -it takes two hundred years or more to produce the most simple warriors
                          -the building of the Pyramids takes about a thousand years, while in real life the Great Pyramid was built in about twenty years and the other two within a century
                          -Alexanders Conquest of the Persian empire, which was an expedition to the limits of the then known world, should be accomplished in less than a turn
                          -Magellans Expedition takes about six hundred years to accomplish, while in reality his voyage around the world lasted three years and Marco Polo travelled in less than two years to China
                          -the Rise and Fall of the Roman empire is represented by less than fourty turns, the much longer lasting Egyptian civilization by less than a hundred, while American history since its independence gets 180 turns
                          (I could add that Rome had during several centuries 600,000 or more inhabitants, an amount not exceeded by New York before 1850AD)
                          -most wars in CivII last some hundred turns or more, which corresponds to hundred years or a multiple of hundred; the siege of one city in the Middle Ages takes easily three centuries

                          It is true that with the passing of time populations will grow, which influences productivity, science output etc. So you will probably have more units, larger and more cities and general activity in the cities will be at a higher level, simply because more land and its yield are used and your cities will have better facilities. But why should a cavalry unit in 1900AD move fifty times as swiftly around as the horsemen did in 3000BC? With more logic one could argue that speed of movement would be slowed down because of gigantic crowds blocking the roads and traffic-jams!
                          A new founded city in 1900AD will double its population in ten years -improvements or not- while the population of Babylon in fertile Mesopotamia will only grow when five hundred years have passed! Yet large-scale use of contraceptives are doubtless a modern development.

                          And I can cause the entire planet to suffer as a result of nuclear war, pollution, global warming and famine, yet as I reach 1850AD all movement and production are doubled again! And all will enjoy this benefit, both the wicked and the righteous...

                          The differences in size between Ancient and Early Modern cities are also much smaller than one would guess: I'll give some lists of the largest cities in the world, made by two rather cautious historians. (T. Chandler and G. Fox)

                          Largest Cities 1360 BC
                          Thebes ~~~100.000
                          Memphis
                          Babylon
                          Chengchow 40.000
                          Chattushshas 40.000
                          Ninive
                          Ecbatana
                          Mykene ~~~30.000
                          Amarna ~~~30.000
                          Knossos ~~30.000

                          Largest Cities 100 AD
                          Roma ~~~650.000
                          Lo-yang
                          Alexandria 400.000
                          Seleucia ~300.000
                          Ch'ang-an
                          Ephesos ~~200.000
                          Antiochia 150.000
                          Kavery
                          Anuradhapura 130.000
                          Apamea ~~~125.000

                          Largest Cities 1300 AD
                          Hang-chow 432.000
                          Beijing ~~401.000
                          Cairo ~~400.000
                          Canton ~~~300.000
                          Nanking ~~300.000
                          Paris ~~~228.000
                          Fez ~~~200.000
                          Kamakura ~200.000
                          Soochow ~~160.000
                          Sian ~~~150.000

                          As one can see, cities circa 1300 weren't much larger than in 100 AD. And the terrible Black Death, which killed about one third of the population of Europe, hadn't struck yet.

                          Largest Cities 1750AD
                          Beijing ~900.000
                          London ~676.000
                          Constantinople 666.000
                          Paris ~~560.000
                          Yedo ~~~509.000
                          Canton ~500.000
                          Osaka ~~375.000
                          Kyoto ~~362.000
                          Hang-chow 350.000
                          Napoli ~324.000

                          The idea behind this speeding up of time is one of disdain for the civilizations of the past: as the game is now 1750AD is turnwise the middle of the game. History seems to begin when the Americans finally arrive on the scene....
                          One wonders how a history book written in 3000AD will treat our time. Will the accomplishments of the twentieth century -two world wars, Holocaust, completely profitless social experiments like Communism and the Cultural Revolution- be considered to have been of the same lasting value as the rise of civilization in Sumer, religions like Christianity and Buddhism, Greek philosophy or the poetry of T'ang China?

                          Linking time speed to world population sounds sympathetic, but will prove to be unworkable in the end. So because the Byzantine civilization flourishes will productivity in backward Australia soar? What would happen when the Black Death strikes or when nuclear winter sets in? Will the passage of time accelerate again?

                          Though in my opinion CivII is a great game, generally the atmosphere is too optimistic. The more it will portray the harsh reality of history, the more I'll like it. And because the game will be the only history some gamers will ever "read", the picture of history it reflects is not without educational importance.

                          I really don't understand why time during different periods of history should pass at a different speed. Its against all logic! I can imagine a game having three, 100 or 2000 turns; with some adjustments it could all work. But why on earth will ships double their velocity, will industry double its output, people copulate twice as much etc, because a 'magic date' has been passed?!?

                          [This message has been edited by S. Kroeze (edited November 01, 2000).]
                          [This message has been edited by S. Kroeze (edited November 02, 2000).]
                          Jews have the Torah, Zionists have a State

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ***A BIT OF HISTORY ON CANOEING***

                            The canoe was the first true boat to be built by primitive mankind. It exists in every part of the world, and excavations have unearthed specimens from the Stone Age. There are three basic types--bark canoes, skin boats, and dugouts. In North America the most important of these native canoes was the birchbark canoe used by a number of woodland Indian tribes.
                            Large portions of the North American continent were first visited by white men traveling in bark canoes. French explorers paddled from the east coast up the St. Lawrence River, crossed into the Great Lakes region, and from there moved their bark canoes north and west into the vast woodland interior of Canada, or south and west into the Mississippi Basin. In 1682 the French explorer Rene Cavelier, sieur de La Salle, traveled by bark canoe from Montreal on the St. Lawrence River to the mouth of the Mississippi on the Gulf of Mexico, a journey of about 3,000 miles (4,800 kilometers).
                            Close behind these explorers came fur traders, their canoes loaded with beads, blankets, axes, guns, and whiskey. These they traded to the Indians for beaver pelts valued for hat-making. A special large trading canoe, the canot du nord, was developed for this fur trade; and the men who paddled these canoes, the French-Canadian voyageurs, are as much the stuff of legend as the cowboys and mountain men of the American West. (See also Boating.)


                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            From Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc.
                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            With the above in mind I think that canoes should be the first boat that can be built in Civ3, after all the very first sentence in the above article says, "The canoe was the first true boat to be built by primitive mankind." Canoes will allow fishermen to fish in the deep lakes and oceans, usually resulting in better luck than in the waters near the land, but to be realistic a canoe can only only travel so far from land, otherwise it will become lost at sea. Canoes will also allow tribes to travel faster by taking advantage of river currents, but once again to be realistic canoes can only travel faster downstream, not upstream. And in some places where there are river rapids, it should be impossible to travel upstream. BEWARE OF ROUGH WATERS!!! A canoe can tip over and drift downstream, lost forever. . .


                            ------------------
                            JRH
                            [This message has been edited by jrhughes98 (edited November 01, 2000).]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by chrispie on 10-31-2000 07:28 PM
                              Also, the turns can't all be the same length, simply...if they are all 100, then WW2 would be pretty short, the hundred years war would be...well 1 turn. But, if they are all 1 year, it'd take forever to get to modern day. I do think that ancient time turns should be made shorter, maybe starting at 5 years a turn, and in modern day just one month or so a turn.



                              I nearly agree with what chrispie is saying. Still I think that turns should start out at 50-100 years depending on level of difficulty at the beginning of the game.

                              The way I see it is like this: for example, say it's 8000 B.C. and you have hunter unit. When you instruct that hunter unit to hunt in a particular tile you are making a decision to hunt in this area for the next 50-100 years; you're not just sending one hunter out to the field to bring back a load big enough to feed your tribe for 50-100 years. No, you're making hundreds or possibly thousands of hunts in a matter of 50-100 years with a single command.

                              quote:


                              -it takes two hundred years or more to produce the most simple warriors



                              An explanation for this is lack of population. It takes a population to produce units, and as your population grows more taxes are pumped into the economy thus producing units more quickly. Most units also need some type of support to survive, and in Civ2 without a home city with enough resources to support a unit, that unit is automatically disbanded.

                              quote:


                              -the building of the Pyramids takes about a thousand years, while in real life the Great Pyramid was built in about twenty years and the other two within a century
                              -Alexanders Conquest of the Persian empire, which was an expedition to the limits of the then known world, should be accomplished in less than a turn
                              -Magellans Expedition takes about six hundred years to accomplish, while in reality his voyage around the world lasted three years and Marco Polo travelled in less than two years to China



                              The only explanation I can think of for this slow development is that in the ancient world, cities populations not only grew slowly, but they also developed their infrastructures very slowly as well. Since populations grew so slowly in the day, the support required to maintain these improvements wasn't available; this goes for wonders, too, even though they require no support costs in Civ2. I suppose that's because they are supported by the people. The periods of time in between in Civ2 when building any kind of city improvement or wonder represent these times of virtually zero infrastructural growth.

                              quote:


                              -the Rise and Fall of the Roman empire is represented by less than fourty turns, the much longer lasting Egyptian civilization by less than a hundred, while American history since its independence gets 180 turns
                              (I could add that Rome had during several centuries 600,000 or more inhabitants, an amount not exceeded by New York before 1850AD)

                              One wonders how a history book written in 3000AD will treat our time. Will the accomplishments of the twentieth century -two world wars, Holocaust, completely profitless social experiments like Communism and the Cultural Revolution- be considered to have been of the same lasting value as the rise of civilization in Sumer, religions like Christianity and Buddhism, Greek philosophy or the poetry of T'ang China?

                              As one can see, cities circa 1300 weren't much larger than in 100 AD. And the terrible Black Death, which killed about one third of the population of Europe, hadn't struck yet.

                              The idea behind this speeding up of time is one of disdain for the civilizations of the past: as the game is now 1750AD is turnwise the middle of the game. History seems to begin when the Americans finally arrive on the scene....



                              I thought you said we were not discussing scenarios?

                              quote:


                              -most wars in CivII last some hundred turns or more, which corresponds to hundred years or a multiple of hundred; the siege of one city in the Middle Ages takes easily three centuries



                              Have you not heard of 'Three Hundred Years War'? A single city takes one turn to seige. It's getting in there that takes forever.

                              quote:


                              It is true that with the passing of time populations will grow, which influences productivity, science output etc. So you will probably have more units, larger and more cities and general activity in the cities will be at a higher level, simply because more land and its yield are used and your cities will have better facilities. But why should a cavalry unit in 1900AD move fifty times as swiftly around as the horsemen did in 3000AD? With more logic one could argue that speed of movement would be slowed down because of gigantic crowds blocking the roads and traffic-jams!



                              In Civ2, it does take extra movement points to pass through cities if you haven't noticed.

                              quote:


                              A new founded city in 1900AD will double its population in ten years -improvements or not- while the population of Babylon in fertile Mesopotamia will only grow when five hundred years have passed! Yet large-scale use of contraceptives are doubtless a modern development.



                              This is the difference between a modern fast-growing city and an ancient slow-growing city.

                              quote:


                              And I can cause the entire planet to suffer as a result of nuclear war, pollution, global warming and famine, yet as I reach 1850AD all movement and production are doubled again! And all will enjoy this benefit, both the wicked and the righteous...

                              The idea behind this speeding up of time is one of disdain for the civilizations of the past: as the game is now 1750AD is turnwise the middle of the game. History seems to begin when the Americans finally arrive on the scene....

                              Linking time speed to world population sounds sympathetic, but will prove to be unworkable in the end. So because the Byzantine civilization flourishes will productivity in backward Australia soar? What would happen when the Black Death strikes or when nuclear winter sets in? Will the passage of time accelerate again?

                              But why on earth will ships double their velocity, will industry double its output, people copulate twice as much etc, because a 'magic date' has been passed?!?



                              Here you have a point.

                              quote:


                              The differences in size between Ancient and Early Modern cities are also much smaller than one would guess: I'll give some lists of the largest cities in the world, made by two rather cautious historians. (T. Chandler and G. Fox)


                              Largest Cities 1360 BC
                              Thebes ~~~100.000
                              Memphis
                              Babylon
                              Chengchow 40.000
                              Chattushshas 40.000
                              Ninive
                              Ecbatana
                              Mykene ~~~30.000
                              Amarna ~~~30.000
                              Knossos ~~30.000

                              Largest Cities 100 AD
                              Roma ~~~650.000
                              Lo-yang
                              Alexandria 400.000
                              Seleucia ~300.000
                              Ch'ang-an
                              Ephesos ~~200.000
                              Antiochia 150.000
                              Kavery
                              Anuradhapura 130.000
                              Apamea ~~~125.000

                              Largest Cities 1300 AD
                              Hang-chow 432.000
                              Beijing ~~401.000
                              Cairo ~~400.000
                              Canton ~~~300.000
                              Nanking ~~300.000
                              Paris ~~~228.000
                              Fez ~~~200.000
                              Kamakura ~200.000
                              Soochow ~~160.000
                              Sian ~~~150.000

                              Largest Cities 1750AD
                              Beijing ~900.000
                              London ~676.000
                              Constantinople 666.000
                              Paris ~~560.000
                              Yedo ~~~509.000
                              Canton ~500.000
                              Osaka ~~375.000
                              Kyoto ~~362.000
                              Hang-chow 350.000
                              Napoli ~324.000



                              The sizes of cities in Civ2 are not added to by the same amount each time a city increases it's size, rather the next city size is added to the previous. For example, from size 1 to size 2, 20,000 people are added to make 30,000 because size 2 adds 20,000. Size 3 adds 30,000, size 4 adds 40,000, and so on. It takes only a size 13 city to reach the population of Beijing in 1750 A.D.; up that to size 14 and you've got over a million people.

                              quote:


                              Though in my opinion CivII is a great game, generally the atmosphere is too optimistic. The more it will portray the harsh reality of history, the more I'll like it. And because the game will be the only history some gamers will ever "read", the picture of history it reflects is not without educational importance.



                              The harsh reality of history can be improved by adding more features to the game.

                              quote:


                              I really don't understand why time during different periods of history should pass at a different speed. Its against all logic! I can imagine a game having three, 100 or 2000 turns; with some adjustments it could all work.



                              I seriously doubt it!

                              ------------------
                              JRH
                              [This message has been edited by jrhughes98 (edited November 02, 2000).]

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