Religion

[Tim White]

I did leave those out because I was just thinking of General terms at the time, I was just using that list as an example, and with Mormonism, That religion is part of Christianism, but it is still very different from all the rest.

[Antonios]

What about Ultra Orthodox Cristians?Forgot them? t

[Tim White]

I want to leave major religions, and real religions out, to many people offended. Just make them very general, like Christianity, and such.

[Nikolai]

I think religion is a MUST! I like the idea of picking up a religion in the beginning, but I think new ones should come random through time and that they would also spreed out or die random. The player should have to think about the different religions in his/her country, for example if you begin to massacre all the Jews in your population, Jews in other countries will be mad on you and probably, if they are a major factor in their country, persuade their rulers to react (go to war, threaten you, etc.). You should have the ability to have a state religion or to forbid a specific religion in your country!

------------------
Who am I? What am I? do we need Civ? YES!!

[Ralf]

Where should only be one religion, and that is the religion. Dont diverse

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited October 24, 2000).]

[Tim White]

quote: Originally posted by Nikolai on 10-24-2000 02:30 PM I think religion is a MUST! I like the idea of picking up a religion in the beginning, but I think new ones should come random through time and that they would also spreed out or die random. The player should have to think about the different religions in his/her country, for example if you begin to massacre all the Jews in your population, Jews in other countries will be mad on you and probably, if they are a major factor in their country, persuade their rulers to react (go to war, threaten you, etc.). You should have the ability to have a state religion or to forbid a specific religion in your country!

I agree totally with you. except that make the religions very general, like what I said above, or people will jump on me.

[Dom Pedro II]

Ahem... I think we are getting too hung up on how contreversial religion is in the game. I still think that imaginary religions are the best because that way, no one can be offended. You should be able to create all of the games religions as one of the options before starting the game in the same way you can change your civilization name and character. If you don't want to create real names or your own than the game will use default names.

This idea also helps us scenario builders out there.

Good idea for the default names: Hey, programmers! Name them after yourselves! I know I always wanted to be worshipped...
[This message has been edited by Dom Pedro II (edited October 24, 2000).]

[Tim White]

quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II on 10-24-2000 05:17 PM Ahem... I think we are getting too hung up on how contreversial religion is in the game. I still think that imaginary religions are the best because that way, no one can be offended. You should be able to create all of the games religions as one of the options before starting the game in the same way you can change your civilization name and character. If you don't want to create real names or your own than the game will use default names. This idea also helps us scenario builders out there. Good idea for the default names: Hey, programmers! Name them after yourselves! I know I always wanted to be worshipped... [This message has been edited by Dom Pedro II (edited October 24, 2000).]

Amen, I am a scenario builder, a great one. I like that idea.

[Ribannah]

Perhaps religions could be interesting if the number of tribes were much higher. There are quite a few kingdom-type PBM-games in which religion plays a role, but always with a huge number of players.

With only 7 players as in Civ2, to distinguish between different religions would not add anything new and only complicate gameplay.

Religion as such is incorporated by techs like Mysticism, Polytheism, Monotheism, Theology, Fundamentalism, city improvements like Temples and Cathedrals and several wonders. So, the importance of religion in human history is well taken into account.

I think it's very doubtful that any specific religion by its unique content has had a major influence on the course of civilization. Religions reflect civilizations rather than shape them, and most of them are not so unique at all.


------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Paulypav]

I think religion is an important aspect and needs to be included in more ways than just the tech tree. In the interest of not offending major religous groups, I think imaginary religions could be created with characteristics taken from various religious groups. To be truly effective as an aspect of game play there should be various religious groups within each civilization even if there is one predominate religion. This would be similar to the effect of the cleric and televangelist units in CTP. If your religion is monotheism, all cities in other civs that are monotheistic will contribute to your civ. I would like to see random shifts in beliefs as well as the use of special units to achieve shifts in the religous beliefs of the populace.

------------------
"In war, there is no substitute for victory."
- Douglas MacArthur

[Vrank Prins]

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud on 10-24-2000 11:56 AM Religion should not be in civ... too controversial.

I can see a few ways in which it could be integrated in the game, without offending anyone, and which would make the game more challenging.

Both in COLONIZATION and CTP appear religious units!!.

In CTP there are the cleric (with theocracy) and the televangelist (with massmedia, makes cleric obsolete). They can: a) sell indulgence; b) soothsay; and c)convert cities. The effect of them is increasing happiness and "conquest" (depending on which side things happen pleasant or nasty).

In COLONIZATION you have a) the jesuit missionar and b) the firebrand preacher. The effect of both of them is creating free units for the build-up of your colony. A) is to be send of to indian villages to "convert the savages", so that every now and then an indian appears at the gate of the most nearby city who spontaneously wants to join your city. B) has to function inside a city in a church>cathedral to "show off the religious freedom they have" so that units in the homeland pop up for free on the quay "to be taken to that free place overseas".

Things could be likewise in CIV.[list=1][*]I would like it if these kind of P&P-units should appear in the game (I must say that I don't like the televangelist, just to solely & typically American a notion).[*]I can think of a kind of balance in religions between civs (like now with diplomacy).
If you have developed either polytheism / monotheisme / theology it should be possible to choose a religion (a roledown menu ?!). And if you have made that choice without knowing which one the AI has chosen for other civs (not yet made contact) it may turn out to be .... . That could be a reason for tensions between the civs, especially when heavy conversion activity is undertaken.[*]When you send in just one "P&P-unit" it shouldn't be possible to convert a whole city at once (like with spies now). Like in COLON. it should be so that in CIV-terms settler-units "defect" from other civs for reason of conversion. That might have the consequence that you would have to pick up these units from the other side of an ocean. To convert a whole city you would have to send in a lot of them (the complete salvation army ).[*]The effect of "P&P-units" should be depended on the happiness of a population, high standards low effect and vice versa.[*]Civs which have turned fundamentalistic might even start a holy war (crusade?!/jihad?!/whatever nonsense). It should only be possible to build either crusaders or fanatics under these conditions, and when things are really.[*]The only way to keep units from "defecting" in your own civ is increasing happiness, which you may do by sending in a P&P into your own city ...... [/list=a]

In the thread top 10 of new tech by Ribannah (last post october 8th )I pleaded for the introduction of Humanism as a link between the religious and the scientific advances.

why do I always keep editing my posts ???
[This message has been edited by Vrank Prins (edited October 25, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Vrank Prins (edited October 25, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Vrank Prins (edited October 26, 2000).]