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Corruption.. the bane of Utopia

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  • #16
    Re: The Untouchable

    Originally posted by Pyrodrew
    Does anyone have a copy of Soren's old post detailing these 2 corruptions?
    No, but I can modestly say that I know everything you ever wanted to know about corruption.

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    • #17
      You may also want to check out the "FP+Palace placement" thread... I'm too lazy to find you the link right now.

      -Arrian
      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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      • #18
        make it so you can build more then 1 FB?

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        • #19
          Sorry I got so irate Pyrodrew . I just lost it for a moment there! You are right to point out that, in a modern democracy, cities don't get more corrupt just because they get further from the capital. This is part of the reason why I'd like a flag, in the editor, that you can attach to new improvements or wonders like "increases optimal number of cities".
          Failing that, though, I've thought of a whole host of small wonders which, when placed in your capital, could act to reduce corruption in ALL your cities. Not only does that significantly reduce the corruption bane, but it would also make your capital far more worth defending . After all, lose that and you have lost the administrative HEART of your empire. THe beauty of the wonders I'm considering is that, unlike the Forbidden Palace, they will work just as well irrespective of the capitals placement!!
          Anyway, there you have it. Maybe when my computer is fixed, I'll be able to produce this Mod, and you guys can tell me if it does the trick!

          Yours,
          The_Aussie_Lurker.

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          • #20
            Yes, that would also attach more importance to the capital, of which there is currently very little.
            Lime roots and treachery!
            "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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            • #21
              Communism doesn't suffer from distance corruption, only from # of cities corruption. IIRC, a Forbidden palace basically reduces corruption by half in a communist regime (well, maybe I didn't understand Soren well), and commercial trait reduces by 25%.
              Communism allows you to poprush buildings, meaning your faraway cities can have courthouses and police stations very quickly.
              Democracy isn't good in too big empires regarding corruption.
              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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              • #22
                What I suggest, though, is that you have a Small Wonder, like Federal Police, which can be built by Democracy and Republic, and acts as a Police Station in every city in your civ-thus avoiding the need for rushed buildings! If you have that, and say a parliament and senate-all reducing corruption civ wide (and War Weariness)-as well as giving continental happiness and culture-and linked to the presence of your palace, then you suddenly see how important the Capital becomes, particularly in larger Civs. You would certainly suffer terribly if you lost it, and would go to greater lengths to defend it!
                Anyway, thats how I see it. I confess that I don't know how the current editor works in relation to civ-wide War Weariness and corruption modifiers, anyone care to enlighten me .

                Yours,
                The_Aussie_Lurker.

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                • #23
                  I created extra buildings to counter corruption: With the advent of the Radio you get Media Station (costs as mush as a library and to build it you need to have a News Agency which you get with Printing Press).

                  I found it necessary to kill corruption and fill up the holes in the tech tree. I like the Federal Police, I will do that too.

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                  • #24
                    Bump!!

                    The_Aussie_Lurker

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                    • #25
                      The Key to reducing corruption (without modding) is to move the palace. Place your FP close to your core cities, and then gradually move your palace to the center of your empire. I play bloodlust games, on huge maps, and I usually move the palace 3-5 times per game. Remember to build courthouses and police stations in all of your cities. Also WLTK reduced corruption, so keep your people happy.


                      In the editor you can reduce the distance corruption, and OCN. I usually play with a mod, in regent, at 80% of default for distance and at 40 OCN.


                      A side note: changing corruption, even a little bit,will change gameplay dramatically. In games that I play w/o the mod, I hit the Industrial age around 1200AD or so. Playing the mod in regent, and I will usually hit the modern ages before 600AD. (against 16 civs)
                      * A true libertarian is an anarchist in denial.
                      * If brute force isn't working you are not using enough.
                      * The difference between Genius and stupidity is that Genius has a limit.
                      * There are Lies, Damned Lies, and The Republican Party.

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                      • #26
                        You are right, Mad Bomber, but I can see what all these other people are complaining about regarding corruption. After all, Washington DC is on the East Coast of the USA, yet you don't see LA gripped by massive corru....oh, wait, bad example A better example is that Silicon Valley is a hub of commerce and production, yet is at the very edge of the West Coast. If this situation were replicated in Civ3, FP or not, areas like this would not be able to produce a granary, let alone microchips!!! This would be very bad for scenarios . This is why the mod approace-in respect to both government types and new Small Wonders and improvements, is probably the best way to go!

                        Yours,
                        The_Aussie_Lurker.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          AUssie:

                          But people fail to realize that US Americans have the FP out west, not to mention that LA does have a courthouse and police station, which reduces corruption and waste. In CIV 3 terms the US would not be large enough to have a relocation of the Palace, a FP out west is good enough. Palace moving is necessary when your empire becomes very large and you do not wish to go commie.
                          * A true libertarian is an anarchist in denial.
                          * If brute force isn't working you are not using enough.
                          * The difference between Genius and stupidity is that Genius has a limit.
                          * There are Lies, Damned Lies, and The Republican Party.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hang on, Mad Bomber, I thought that with all the government funded subsidies, recieved by American farmers and manufacturers, that the country was Commie!?


                            Yours,
                            The_Aussie_Lurker.

                            P.S: Sorry, I couldn't help but have a dig at the "Free Trade" policies of the US, given how they so often effect Australia!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              You mean the money we give farmers to NOT grow crops, so that the farmers can actually subsist and not flood the world with produce so cheap that it would take the world into another great depression? Those subsidies? Hardly a country going commie if you ask me, if we could get a medical system where all citizens were covered then I would start to worry. Just look at our trade deficit, the US should have more trade restrictions IMO, and those would hurt Austrailians more than the free trade policies currently favored by the State Department.
                              * A true libertarian is an anarchist in denial.
                              * If brute force isn't working you are not using enough.
                              * The difference between Genius and stupidity is that Genius has a limit.
                              * There are Lies, Damned Lies, and The Republican Party.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Pyrodrew


                                Relax, I'm not taking away your corruption.

                                Anyways, of course corruption exists in real life, only Hawaii is not the evil corruption haven Civ3 likes to think it is simply because it is so far from Washington DC.

                                And it is obvious corruption improvements can be created in the editor, but those fight both types of corruption.

                                That aside, I agree mod-related solutions are the best alternative for now.
                                Instead of making all new buildings to fight corruption, you could do what a friend of mine does - mod every improvement already in the game so that it has the Fights Corruptions flag.

                                On Waste: I'm pretty sure WLT*D reduces or eliminates shield loss due to waste, so you could just work really hard to get your corrupt cities into WLT*D. Of course, this may not help as much as rushed temples and courthouses or a nearby palace, but it's better than nothing, I'd think.


                                I don't have the time to play on Huge maps, so I don't see this problem on Normal and Large maps as much as some people do.

                                If I played Huge maps, I'd probably mod a few more buildings to fight corruption. If you think about it, Temples and Cathedrals probably should help, since most major religions are anti-theft, but then again, maybe not.
                                "Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos

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