Corruption.. the bane of Utopia

[Pulsatingpecs]

Does anyone have any opinions on Corruption and waste? Have they changed the flavour of Civ?

Many things have changed since Civ2, giving the game more dimensions of play, but ultimately i think the game still boils down to only two ways of winning when playing the huge map. Space Race and Cultural. Diplomatic vitory is a farce no matter what map size and my fave, Conquest is still there but it’s just not as fun. Not being able to put new cities where once stood large ones makes destruction pointless. Why wipe out the other civs nowadays? It’s not worth it… the land gain is of no use. So Conquest now is merely a side thing to do…

Corruption and waste has made the cities that far from the capital too hard to UTOPIAize, I will still go about and destroy the other civs. But now there will be huge tracts of railroaded land abound with no-one to populate it, even though my cities burst at the seams….

Some may say this is to make the game more “realistic”… nothing else is in the game is so what goes? I mean I love Civ3, as with the other Civs but man there should have been an option to turn off Corruption/Waste due to Distance… But alas this is not UTOPIA.

[Cyclotron]

Well, I disagree with you on the winning route issue... I go for domination, conquest, cultural, and space race. I don't really like diplo.

Not being able to put new cities where once stood large ones makes destruction pointless

Um, I don't recall this... is this a PTW thing?

[Pulsatingpecs]

perhaps i should rephrase that, can't put any decent city.... too much corruption/waste. Have to turn to the vassal strategy to be able to work the land properly.

[Cyclotron]

I never find corruption too much of a problem, at least when the city is on my landmass. Sure, it takes a lot out of the cities, but I find that rushed couthouses/police stations along with a well placed palace and FP make the larger of these cities at least somewhat feasable.

[Pulsatingpecs]

will try that tonight... but what about waste? can this be handled the same way?

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

The great thing about Civ3, over Civ2, is that you have so many more options in dealing with corruption. Admittedly, Civ3 doesn't have a government which eliminates corruption completely, but I thought that was completely lame anyway. In Civ3, you can have improvements and Small wonders which each reduce corruption, plus you can reduce corruption in the editor.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Pulsatingpecs]

But studying the corruption model posted on a thread somewhere in here, it seems once you reach a number of cities and/or distance fomr the two palaces, you will end up with 95% corruption.... courthouse and police station..... or am i reading that table wrong

[Pyrodrew]

The Untouchable

you can reduce corruption in the editor.

Soren stated a long time ago there are 2 times of Corruption: # of City Corruption & Distance Corruption. He then listed the best way to fight each. I saved that list, but unfortunately my harddrive died since then, so now it's lost. At any rate, the Editor ONLY allows you to change # of City Corruption... we still cannot change Distance Corruption. Someone once pumped # of City Corruption as high as possible & Distance Corruption was still powerful on Huge+ maps. Distance Corruption is so powerful it limits one's strategic options. If you're playing England you can forget about trying to put up HongKong (settler in China), Sydney (settler in Australia), & Jamestown (settler in America). Distance Corruption's fate easily kills 1 of those options & 2 if you do not sacrafice up your homeland by relocating your Palace. I was hoping by 1.29 or PtW we could adjust Distance Corruption....

Does anyone have a copy of Soren's old post detailing these 2 corruptions?

[Pyrkaige]

Some may say this is to make the game more realistic nothing else is in the game is so what goes? I mean I love Civ3, as with the other Civs but man there should have been an option to turn off Corruption/Waste due to Distance But alas this is not UTOPIA.

There is a an option to essentially "turn off" corruption, by going into the editor and changing the levels of corruption in the game. You can adjust both the basic level of corruption and the number of cities that start to increase corruption, per difficulty level. I tend to dislike the standard corruption model, so I often play on a modified Deity level that has corruption turned way down.

Of course, the AI has the same problem with corruption that players do; this is one of the few parts of the game where the computer isn't given a large boost on higher difficulty levels (apart from the fact that it needs far fewer shields to build anything in the game.) If you lower corruption dramatically, you will notice that the AI expands to cover every corner of the map, unlike high difficulty levels with standard corruption rules. If given the chance, the AI will do a good impersonation of infinity city sprawl itself.

Soren stated a long time ago there are 2 times of Corruption: # of City Corruption & Distance Corruption. He then listed the best way to fight each. I saved that list, but unfortunately my harddrive died since then, so now it's lost. At any rate, the Editor ONLY allows you to change # of City Corruption... we still cannot change Distance Corruption.

You can alter both forms of corruption, or at least change corruption to be so low that it's a non-issue. In the editor there is a box that lists the exact number of cities after which higher corruption kicks in (it takes less cities to hit this at higher skill levels, of course.) There is also an overall slider for corruption/waste levels; if you turn this all the way down, there is next to no corruption, even in far-flung cities. I've played full games and sprawled across the entire land-mass without building the FP, simply because it never seemed worth the turns, since corruption was already so low.

I highly recommend that anyone who dislikes the basic rules for corruption take 5 minutes and load up the editor to play around with the numbers. It can really change the way both you and the AI play the game.

[Pyrodrew]

There is a an option to essentially "turn off" corruption

True, but I would like to leave '# of cities corruption' alone (or only slightly alter it) & simply turn down 'distance corruption'.

[vmxa1]

BY the time you are grabbing large cities on another land mass, you do not need to Utopia them. Just either capture or built new and get a temple in and let them sit as way stations, giving a shield a turn or being brood colonies. This give you conrol of the RR in the area and denies other access.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I still think that the best solution that is available is mod-related. That is, it is possible, through the editor, to construct a whole host of improvements and small wonders that can reduce corruption, at any point in the game! This, from the outset, makes Civ3 2000x more flexible than Civ2. Also, you can create dozens of new governments, each with a different level of basic corruption-again, much more flexible than Civ2!! I'm not saying that Civ3 is perfect, but it DEFINITELY leaves Civ2 for dead! Corruption exists in real life, even in democratic governments-GET USED TO IT!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Firebird]

You might also create new buildings in the editor that fights corruption (call it "Governors Office" or something like that).

[Firebird]

Oh, you where faster Aussie Lurker .

[Pyrodrew]

Corruption exists in real life, even in democratic governments-GET USED TO IT!!

Relax, I'm not taking away your corruption.

Anyways, of course corruption exists in real life, only Hawaii is not the evil corruption haven Civ3 likes to think it is simply because it is so far from Washington DC.

And it is obvious corruption improvements can be created in the editor, but those fight both types of corruption.

That aside, I agree mod-related solutions are the best alternative for now.