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**vmxa1** · November 2, 2002, 16:54

AFAIK that is the default for a new founded city. It you are on a bonus tile such as gold, I understand you get that boost as well, but have not tested it.

**Theseus** · November 2, 2002, 17:38

Pez, you are correct... you lose the value of any strategic or luxury resources. The only additional commerce available (other than gold) is if the town is placed alongside a river.

**Pez** · November 2, 2002, 20:42

Thanks for your replies! So I'm right that generally no bonus resources count on a city field except gold and rivers. But I still don't comprehend the commerce bonus and its development in the course of a game.
I've started some games simply to found some cities on different terrain and see what the city field gets (Egyptians on Warlord if it matters, which I think should not be the case). Result: 2-1-3 everyhere, river or not, except gold on a hill, which yields 2-1-4 or 2-1-5 if adjacent to a river.
Then I loaded a recently begun game (also Egyptians on Warlord) where I've built 3 cities all on grassland, the first two adjacent to a river: First city 2-1-3, second city 2-1-2 (?), third city 2-1-1 (??). What's up with this? Does the first city get a bonus, and the 2 on the second city is because of the river?
In another game I've looked into (Romans on Chieftain, yes I know..., but I have it only for a few days

), it seems it is dependent on city size. Small cities (<=6) get 2-1-1 and bigger ones (>6, <=12) get 2-1-4, 2-1-5 (the 5 being from river) and I've also seen 2-2-4 and 2-2-5 (?). Where does this additional shield come from? I've found nothing in the manual about this. Do you know any details?
I know that this is not really important, but somehow it bothers me not knowing where all my resources come from.

**Theseus** · November 2, 2002, 22:13

I can;t remember all the commerce stuff... maybe one of the "game mechanics" can step up with a list.

Pez, you are on the right track. Commerce and shield production are impacted by a number of factors, including terrain, rivers / coasts / deltas, city size, Commercial, type of government, WLT?D, corruption and waste... and some other things too.

I can;t think of a good thread that describes all the factors. I suggest 1) examining Cracker's thread at CFC about early tile decisions, and 2) find one of the stats summaries in the Files section, at least a few of which have good detail on all this stuff.

**Destroyer** · November 2, 2002, 23:24

You get the normal tile production after a certain point, although I havent woked out when this is. I think its after you get to size 13 (except if you are on a hill, you still get one food).

**Destroyer** · November 2, 2002, 23:27

Actually. I think its size 7

**Pez** · November 3, 2002, 12:01

Ok, I think I get it now, atleast until size 12, thanks Destroyer, you put me on the right track!
Cities with pop <=6 ("towns"): food and shields is 2-1 no matter what. Commerce is terrain bonus (incl. river and bonus res. like ivory or gold) plus one (same as there were a road). Exception is the first city, which gets a minimum of 3 commerce.
Cities with pop >6 and <=12 ("cities"): food stays at 2, but you get a second shield, if the terrain yields a shield (hills, plains, bonus grassland). Not tested with shield bonus resources, it's likely full terrain bonus plus one.
Commerce seems to be terrain bonus plus three (also not tested with bonus res., but I think they count)
Cities with pop >12 ("metropolises"): currently not tested, maybe food bonus counts also?
Anyway, I'll have a look on this in my future games and post a follow up, if I find out something new. Maybe other newbies are interested.

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