Great Leaders only from war? I don't think so ...

[ThaddeusAlexander]

Thats a great idea Destroyer, I'm with you 100% on that. I guess the only problem is people die eventually And, of course, you can only have one GL at a time ... so really you could use the GL to rush, say, the sistene chapel ... and basically you've created Michelangelo and the sistene chapel produces your culture.

But maybe a GL could create its own structure, a "Historic Site" that you could name yourself perhaps? Maybe that would make sense ... and it only generates more culture. Almost like permanently disbanding the GL for a permanent per-turn increase in culture. But why stop there? Why not have a GL do one of a number of things ... permanently make 2 content citizens happy, or maybe increase science of gold output for the rest of the game for the city? We're getting pretty involved now though, i know...

As for your comments solomyr, I have to say it would be the feat of having one unit move all tiles across the map. After all, its not so much for discovery as it is for saying "I did it!" and that is, after all, what would really make that great leader. If you have two ships meet, then you don't really have one great naval commander.

Which brings another great want: Naval Great Leaders!

Cheers
~Thadalex

[Solomyr]

Thadalex, i completely agree the feat is in moving that unit around the world, i've done it, and felt good about it, but how can we measure that? so that trading for maps, or sending two ships doesn't trigger the event? of course, perhaps the feat could be clearing the ENTIRE maps. no more black squares. this would invovle trade as well as acutally navigation...that's should be the trigger for magellen's voyage.

[ThaddeusAlexander]

I think that's a bit harsh for the Voyage

And I'm not sure what you mean by measure it... how do we judge when you can get a gl or not?

Cheers
~Thadalex

[Solomyr]

the first person to clear the map gets a GL...it seems like a big task, but with the trading of maps, it doesn't seem that hard...of course, for a GL might be much, however, the fact is that nothing happens when you clear the entire map now

[ThaddeusAlexander]

That I agree with 100%

ANybody got other peaceful ideas for GL generation?

Cheers
~Thadalex

[Destroyer]

Originally posted by ThaddeusAlexander
That I agree with 100%

ANybody got other peaceful ideas for GL generation?

Cheers
~Thadalex

Once a city reaches a certain culture level, it could produce a peaceful leader. These should be able to move from city to city, and provide a bonus to the city they currently reside. Peraps they could be captured my other civs!

Bonuses could include:

scientist - science
engineer/architect/inventor - production bonus
writer/playwright - culture
director/sportsman - happiness

any others?

[ThaddeusAlexander]

Originally posted by Destroyer


Once a city reaches a certain culture level, it could produce a peaceful leader. These should be able to move from city to city, and provide a bonus to the city they currently reside. Peraps they could be captured my other civs!

Bonuses could include:

scientist - science
engineer/architect/inventor - production bonus
writer/playwright - culture
director/sportsman - happiness

any others?

Its a good idea, but I think they'd have to differentiate between GLs from War and GL from peace. As the game is now, you cannot have more than one GL at a time, so you'd need to factor that in.

Cheers
~Thadalex

[ChrisiusMaximus]

I like the idea of the victorious naval unit,maybe only a great naval leader unit could rush the coastal great wonders,Magellans etc

[ThaddeusAlexander]

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
I like the idea of the victorious naval unit,maybe only a great naval leader unit could rush the coastal great wonders,Magellans etc

Thats a good idea

Is all we can do about this just wish? Can nobody mod this in to the game somehow?

Cheers
~Thadalex

[sun_tzu_159]

Hi all,
Great Leaders Ideas.

Firstly there seem to be only military great leaders. This should be expanded so that we have military, religious, cultural, industrial, scientific etc. GL's. These can be located in individual cities to boost particular attibutes to that city.

1. As with the Battlefield Medicine where you have to build five hospitals. You could have great religious leader after building five cathedrals, great industrial leader after building iron-works, great military leader after building five barracks.

2. As in CTP2 you could have great feats of human achievement. One of them was circumnavigation of the globe. Another was invention of concrete. Others related as in point one to building many city improvements, one of which was theatres which boosted your cultural ratings.

3. Based on resources/luxuries. This would encourage trade. When you have through trade a number of luxury/resource, maybe at 2,4,8,16 different received goods a GL is created. When the number of traded goods falls through acquisition within your own territory and lost routes through war and other factors the GL is gone. Of course this may generate more than one GL at a time, maybe as each is acquired the type could be chosen at random from list in intro above.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

[miike]

I did not see anyone bring this up, so here goes. What about playing a game with alot of barbarians. Sure they are annoying early. But after a little while, you may be able to generate a GL, just by killing Barbs. This may provide you with a GL without having to go to war with people.

[Zero-Tau]

You can't get a Great Leader from defeating a barbarian. Unit promotions, yes, but no GL.

[Jason Beaudoin]

I think the greatest flaw (but a materpiece) of CIV III is the leader system. So I agree with Thad.

[Optimizer]

Are you already thinking of ideas for Civ 4?

If we are, we should only care about ideas that really add something to the game. I am not sure that leaders produced by civilian feats will.

I see two drawbacks in the Great Leader concept in Civ 3:

1. The random factor is too decisive, because Leaders are valuable but rare.
2. It encourages warfare too much, because Leaders can give free Wonders.
3. The Realism factor - not even a great war hero can create big pyramids instantly from thin air.

I would drop the Leaders' possibility to rush Wonders so that they could only create armies. The chance of getting a Leader should be increased too, so you can get more sure of getting an army sooner or later.

Shall we try to think up alternative uses for Leaders? I thought of using them for espionage missions.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Optimizer
I would drop the Leaders' possibility to rush Wonders so that they could only create armies. The chance of getting a Leader should be increased too, so you can get more sure of getting an army sooner or later.

Shall we try to think up alternative uses for Leaders? I thought of using them for espionage missions.

I have posted this idea some time ago... I do agree that great leaders shouldn't be able to hurry improvements or wonders - too much of a warmonger's advantage... Instead (if not used to create an army), leaders could increase the scientific, commercial, and/or shield output of a city they would be located in. Something like local Golden Ages... this way, they would still be useful even from the economic point of view, but they would not be SO much powerful as they are now.

The idea of non-military great leaders is driven by the desire to balance the game more in favour of peaceful builders. As the game stands now, the best way is to wage war almost constantly (or at least, a LOT), partly because of great leaders being more plentiful. If there was a way to get leaders in a peaceful way, too, the builders would improve their odds compared to the warmongers...