Opps- waited too long. Any hope?

[N. Machiavelli]

1450 will do if it's your most recent move.

[planetfall]

Machiavelli
Tomorrow.

-- PF

[Jaybe]

PF, if you go the Modern Armor route do NOT forget to research Rocketry (needed for aluminum) before Synth Fibers; a mistake I hope not to make again.

[planetfall]

Originally posted by Jaybe
PF, if you go the Modern Armor route do NOT forget to research Rocketry (needed for aluminum) before Synth Fibers; a mistake I hope not to make again.

Good point. Never happened to me because I need some Jet Fighter protection before I need MA or manu plants. Some games I delay MA to end, other games it is early.

{Opps, forgot lately have only been playing germany. Scientific and so is granted rocketry. Later will be playing other civs so something good to keep in the back of the mind.}

With this game tech research sequence will be:
ecology
stealth
fission
nuclear
computers
miniaturazation
laser
robotics
...who cares

--PF

[Ethelred]

I think its often faster to Modern Armour if you get Computers first. For a Scientific Civ it would depend on how fast your tech research is going. Non-scientific civs need to reasearch three techs to build MA and the Research Labs can often speed that up enough to make up for the time spent on getting Computers.

[planetfall]

Ethelred--
Excellent point about different path for non-scientific civs.

Machiavelli

Here is the save.

NB: Configuration error from 2 games ago effects this game. Two games ago I got mad when Greece "cheated" by getting 2 new techs in 3 turns when no one else had the techs except me. So I gave Germany Robotics in editor. Did not correct in last game as ran Monarchy thru whole game and never got to modern age. Boy was I surprised to see robotics before I researched it. Undone "cheat adjustment" as I have an explanation as to how it may not be a cheat. But that will not effect this game.

To keep game play even don't use benefits of robotics until you would have normally obtained this tech.

Preference changes:
bombers-- range 8, recon
carriers-- load 6
artillery-- range 2
Can't recall if naval movement increased 1 or 2 from default.
jets--range somewhere between 4 and 6
BS-- see invisible
May be other small ones but can't recall them.

No nukes as previously mentioned because Firaxis will not allow each civ to build manhattan as a SW instead of GW.


game progress
Worried too much. Still close but think it is won.

Landing in NE China went without challenge, except declaration of war. Took over 5 transports with 16 art, 8 panzers, 2 settlers and rest infantry. Sequence was:
1. landing, and follow up declaration of war. 5 units on one hill, 1 tile from Phile and all other units on second hill halfway between Phile and {previous American coastal town}.

2. Planted city and rushed airport. Since China sent over no troops, used arts on Phile and 5 panzers took city. Abandoned city.

3. Now new city is only 1/2 in China influence area. If city doesn't flip I can take the city to the north next turn. Then I will savely be outside China zone of influence. Moved half of units to neighboring hill in case flips.


Surprisingly China let city to south live with only 10 infantry in it. It was squeezed in a 2 tile slot 2 tiles from China city. I pushed library so my influence takes tile separating 2 cities. Since then I have reinforced with 6 panzers.

Other development, in core empire have about 10 cities on military production only. Other cities are working on building up production capability. I will be review unit build rates to see if I need to switch some increase production capability to generate production now.

Year 1600 overview
China declared war in 1595 when landed in area of influence and refused to move.
Russia and Japan honored MPP and declared war on China. Thus china has 4 potential fronts:
1. NE- German new city in previous America
2. NW- Japan
3. W- Russia
4. SW- Small German city.

Japan-- most powerful unit is rifleman, count is 7. Not a factor.

Russia-- a little power, but not much
bombers-- 7
BS--2
DS--3 {don't ask me why these are needed except maybe to protect island}
Infantry-- 35
art--2

China--
Just switched to commie, Yeah!! Out production should not be a problem now.

Navy-- a gallery and ironclad. Oh let me tremble, tremble, tremble.

Air-- 11 bombers. I expected to be hit in landing zone. My sole carrier had 3 jets on AS and either that worked to protect or bombers were too far away. Expect to take some losses as campaign progresses but do not plan to build much of an air force. I plan to add, slowly, another carrier and 4 bombers to take out one rubber until army can get there.

Army-- big, big pink mass of willing fighters. It will not be a short campaign and should remain interesting for quite some time.
Tanks-- 4, {these just came on line}
artillery-- 12 {small number for number of cities, nice}
infantry--165

If I were playing China, I would allocate this way:
10 inf-- Japan
20 inf-- Russia
60 inf-- SW city. It only has 8 inf and 6 panzers. However it does have an airport and expect reinforcements of 2-5 units/turn.
30 inf-- NE city, to slow German advance and then use remainers of 60 on southern front to push off continent.
It will be interesting to see how AI plays China.

Oh, what does Germany have?
NAVY
carrier-- 1
BS-- 4
DS-- 3
transports-- 7 {2 for reserve}

AIR
jets-- 5 {3 on carrier, 2 SE China city}
bombers-- 2

ARMY
panzers-- 47
artillery-- 18
infantry-- 66

Thus my army is about 2/3rd size of China's. About 2 turns from MA. Will be very interesting to see how the strategy of going for China's core cities works out. Probably won't have as much effect for communist as none communist government, but still should have a significant effect. It will be interesting to see if AI puts up a stronger fight knowing you are targeting core cities.


Have fun playing.

-- PF

[N. Machiavelli]

Looks like fun. I'll d/l and give it a shot when I get home.

[sun_tzu_159]

PlanetFall,
What started China on conquest of so many cities so quickly and all AI vs AI?
You have winning position for your armies if you can keep the transports running unhindered.
When you take a city you want to keep select to build temple and rush-buy (if enough cash) so that it is effective straight away to prevent riot in turn after city is conquered. If you put four to six troops in the city all resistors should be quickly quelled.
Make sure that sufficient troops are ready for second attack if a first attack fails.
Try to get Battlefield Medicine Wonder built if not already so that troops can heal after battle outside of towns and cities which you think are at too great a risk of culture flip.
Launch a second front where there has been other recent battles where the numbers of troops will be lower and more damaged.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

[planetfall]

Originally posted by sun_tzu_159
PlanetFall,
What started China on conquest of so many cities so quickly and all AI vs AI?

What living up to your alias? What an insightful question. Here is a timeline I will leave interpretation up to you:

MPP #A -- Rome & China
Think was triggered by Rome seeing my military buildup. Even though China was way away, I did not want to risk harrassment so focused on building production capability.

MPP #B -- Germany & Russia
Thought was simply to get China guessing and not focusing on Germany.

MPP A expires

MPP #C -- Germany & Japan
Again keep China guessing as leading in land and productivity and score and power.

{Greece and America refused MPP}


MPP #D -- Germany & China
Greece was growing and I did not have espionage and thought China was weaker. Besides if in MPP with China, they would not make one with Rome.

China wipes America.

A couple of turns later I start on Rome, but let them live on island.

You have winning position for your armies if you can keep the transports running unhindered.

I only use transports after initial landings for: settlers, workers, armies. Everything else is airlifted

When you take a city you want to keep select to build temple and rush-buy (if enough cash) so that it is effective straight away to prevent riot in turn after city is conquered.

Other than the one happiness it generates, is a temple any better than a library?
Isn't culture, culture. Just a difference in
the culture points per turn?

If you put four to six troops in the city all resistors should be quickly quelled.

Problem is they stay there too long. This is my normal method of playing, but with high number of Chinese infantry thinking of going the raze city route.

Make sure that sufficient troops are ready for second attack if a first attack fails.

Steady stream, that is why I focus first on wartime production capability and secondly on troops.

Try to get Battlefield Medicine Wonder built if not already so that troops can heal after battle outside of towns and cities which you think are at too great a risk of culture flip.

Just got it.

Launch a second front where there has been other recent battles where the numbers of troops will be lower and more damaged.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

That's why I have the weak presence in the SW and the second city on the continent.

--PF

[Theseus]

A Library is clearly superior for culture, but a Temple 1) is good for the 1 happiness, and 2) paves the way for a Cathedral.

If Rel or Sci, the decision is made for you. If neither (ugghh!), I'd lean toward a Temple.

In certain cases, a Harbor is drastically preferred, even with no culture generation. "Woohoo!! This guy Theseus is an AWESOME ruler!! I'm rolling in luxuries!"

[planetfall]

Theseus--

That is what I thought. My normal build order for new landing zone cities is:

1. airport {reinforcements & luxuries}
2. library {cheaper than temple, and helps prevent flipping}
3. barracks {healing}
4. temple {more flipping protection}

Then may go harbor if I need local ship repair option.

--PF

[planetfall]

1630 AD image

As suspected slugfest, here is mini at 1630ad.

--PF

[planetfall]

1630 AD - discussion

Well, 6 turns since yesterday and China's army and Germany's army are the same relative strength. China is 1.5x Germary; Germany is .67% China's army.

Here is turn sequence for Land Forces available:

Key:
[Year..China..Germany]
Yr..Marine.Infantry.Tank..Army..Total___Infantry.P anzer.MA..Army..Total__Net Change

1605..?.162.3..0..165___66.50.0..0..116__ 0
1610..?.159.17..0..176___66.53.0..0..119__ -6
1615..13.153.18..0..184___66.44.4..0..114___ -13

1620..6.142.14..0..162___64.36.11..0..111___ 19
1625..6.138.20..1..165___64.27.17..1..109___ -5
1630..6.139.17..1..163___62.25.21..2..110___ 3

Net change over 6 turns: -3 military units


Strategy during 6 turns
1. Primary zone to NE. Secure area and reduce China area of influence.

2. Secondary zone to SW. Divert some of China's army away from primary zone.

3. Move south towards Beijing which is coastal white square below the white rectangle.

Areas of control changes during 6 turns
1. East-- China took about 12 of Russian cities. {2 I recaptured and abandoned so Russia can resettle if she wishes}

2. SW-- Removed 2 China cities. First to go the was the city 2 tiles away which had the low potential of causing a flip. China only threw about 15 units against me in the South. I expect more units shortly as one of rubbers is in SE and I am starting to move there.

analysis Secondary zone was super idea. Not much of value to China in SW, unlike zone in NE and resources in SE. Finally I was able to get a GL and build an army. Definitely worth it just to be able to build Heroic Epic and Mil Acad.

3. NE--Took out 2 coastal cities south of zone and one city in mountains towards the Russian point. Also took over a minor former American city to NNE, but that was just to reduce culture pressure. Makes map look good but of very limited value.

Revised strategy
Since there has been no gain in Land Forces in 6 turns, a change of strategy is called for. Revering to prior strategies.

1. Reduce tech funding
More important right now than Nuclear power is movement ability and hurting China's land force. I am not sure how long Russia can continue to hold off the pink swarm with only 33 infantry. Reduced tech funding to 0, so I will have a positive cash flow of about 300. I need 1,600 gold to upgrade artillery to radar artillery.

2. target army
China has a 3 unit tank army in former American city, the white square at the bottom of the bay above the white rectangle. Don't know why China decided defend this city. Size 22 but no special resources, unless there is a wonder in there, huh, better check.

3. break area of influence to NW
Since I am going for the Army anyway, might as well take the port city to the N and the connector city to SW, towards Russia. I didn't see any other airports or ports, a few units breaking roads should incite more corruption and less production in 7 former American cities. Since China is communist, this should also help reduce production in core cities.

4. focus on strategic resources
Available to China:
Oil = 4
Rubber = 5
Alum = 4

Further analysis shows

OIL {key: 0=current, -=when city expands}
- Detroit
o Macao
- Detroit
- Nankai

RUBBER
o Argos
o Maikup
o New Nanking
o Anyong
o Kaikun

ALUM
o St Louis
- New Chengdon
o Canton
o Shanghai

You think Macao might be a good target!!! It is both close and of key strategic importance.

5. Continue secondary thrust to SE
There is oil and rubber and a few luxuries to SE. My 2 MA Armies are nearby and cities are small. If I can get another city or two down there I can increase luxuries and reduce the entertainment funding drain. I am running republic and 20% is currently the cost of this government.

6. Diversify Military Generators
I added 2 during this turn and so have 19 Geneators now. Before review I was just going to pump out more MA's. Now I think I will instead use these 2 for dedicated purposes. I will be for armies. The second will be for naval units to support South diversion. I need better protection for transports to carry army leaders across the big pond. The biggest threat is the 11 Chinese bombers, so I need at least 2 carriers and 6 jets to protect the transports.


Well that's enough to keep my mind occupied. I hope these changes will have a better effect on the size of Land Forces.

What do you all think? Anything else you would do that I am missing?

Thanks

-- PF

[vmxa1]

If money is an issue why upgrade to RA? I really hate having gaps with my cities. I will raze, rather than capture to avoid it. Why not package a good size force and run over some cities, burn them to the ground. This will allow you to kep moving and reduce their productivity. Maybe send out some improvemnet wreckers to cut down their movement and income.
Once you clear an area that is in your land, put in a new city with a settler. It will not need much defence as you will have cut off their access to the RR to get back there. You should have plenty of workers to put back roads and RR after you move them out of the area.

[jshelr]

Settlers trick: I agree with you that you can go a long way with three-movers. Sometimes, however, you get stuck. When and if you do, the settler trick often lets the blitz continue. Next time you get stuck, look at the situation and think how moving a settler into place will let you extend your attack to a city that would otherwise not be reachable. While this is helpful for panzers and MA, it's vital to use this trick if you want to take multiple cities in a one-turn tank blitz.