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  • Canals, the Worldwide Shortcuts

    I was playing a game where there was a large continet that streached from one pole to the other, in effect cuting the world in half because it was just to long of a journey to go all the way around. However, this same continent narrowed in it's expance to two points where the was a landbridge only one/two squares wide. I began to thing "why the hell can't I just build a Suez or Panama canal and cut travel time in half.

    This would of course be a tile improvement to be used as a worker option. There should also be some requirements.

    1.) The improvement must be adjacant to a coastal square.

    2.) It must be on a flat terrain tile, ie. desert, plains, grasslands.

    3.) It must have an extreme production cost to make it almost like a worker built small wonder (and I mean extreme).

    4.) the canal would be in place of road/railrod, like a irrigation and mines can't be in the same square. This will interupt land traval, but a large canal would.

    5.) the tile would be a sort of hybrid land/sea square where both tyoes of units could pass.

    This would alow those annoying little land bridges to be cut for travel time gain. It is an interesting concept. Like a road or railroad, if it is controled by an ally in a free passage agreement then you could use it for free. Also, if you really want to piss a maritine player off and cripple it's navy, all you would have to do is put a land unit over the square and the naval units couldn't use it (they can't attack land units, only bombard). The other way works, just put a naval unit on the canal squares and the land units can't pass, just bombard if they have the ability. Or imagine a new diplomatic option where you can pay a "price" in luxuries or gold for canal privlages (that is sort of out there, but I can dream...)

    Since you can only build on a costal square, the maximum length can only be two squares, keeping peope from building rediculously long canals, and the build time would keep people from buiding a canal on all their costal tiles, which would actually only make a sort intercoastal waterway. Also, I get annoyed when in order to get that one resource square in a city radius I have to settle a city one square away from the coast and thus rob myself of a potential naval production facility/base. Now if I have a large city like that and it has good production, it might be worth spending the time to build the canal and give it sea access and thus naval building options.

    What do you think?
    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

  • #2
    I think this has been mentioned before, or something similar. What you can do however, if the tile has water on either side, build a city on it. Then a boat can pass through the city. But if it is wider then 1, you can not do this because cities can not be adjacent to each other.

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    • #3
      I always build a city, even if a resource/luxury is beyond the city limits. A canal can be a military lifesaver, and a good cutoff/checkpoint to keep the AI out of that territory. Just use colonies for rec./lux/, but I would give up the wheat/cattle whatever for a well placed canal.
      Rhett Monroe Chassereau

      "I use to be with it, then they changed what it is. And what I'm with isn't it, and what is it seems strange and scary to me." -Abe Simpson

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      • #4
        Could someone figure out a way to teach this to the AI? How many times have we seen the AI build a city right next to a tile that would pass through from ocean to ocean? You can’t just take the city over and pass through, you have to raze the city and build one in the proper place (and it’s usually overlapping another city or is in another city’s radius and therefore unable to be built.)

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        • #5
          1) I surport canals.

          2) This topic seems to come up every couple of months, and has probably been done to death.
          "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."
          --P.J. O'Rourke

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          • #6
            Of course, I build cities on narrow isthmuses that link two oceans, and occasionally where the tile connects and ocean and an interior sea or lake.

            However, a canal improvement would be very useful to link a series of lakes, where building a series of cities would be awkward or impossible. Building a two-tile or longer canal would also be useful.

            However, the total length of a multi-tile canal should probably be limited, or else the construction time should be extremely long, so as to discourage building continent-spanning waterways all over the place.

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            • #7
              Conversely: if canals, why not causeways? Civ has always discriminated against island civs, and this could redress the balance. More generally: allow workers to step into coastal squares and land-fill them; they
              would then turn into maybe floodplains. Maybe in modern times workers could even landfill ocean squares; then you could connect even distant islands by causeways (and then build RRs on them).

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              • #8
                i 100 percent agree with canals, and curse the isthmuses my troops walk on. but i disagree with the idea of causeways. yes, civ is biased towards land based civs, but then again, how much influence has the Mironesianas really had on the world? beside, a canal improvment would still opperate as a land tile. besides, even modern landfills ain't cool enough to connect islands. bridges, now maybe...
                Never laugh at live dragons.
                B. Baggins

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                • #9
                  I think canals would be a great addition. The way they're suggested here seems quite good. Minor correction though: the canal length can be three squares, if you have a city in the middle. Still not overpowered though.

                  Originally posted by Solomyr
                  how much influence has the Mironesianas really had on the world?
                  Sure, it's realistic, but it's no fun starting on a small insland in the middle of the ocean and not meeting anyone until late in the game, by which time they'll be about an age ahead of you. Honestly, I think game balance is a bit more important than realism.
                  The long list of nonsense

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                  • #10
                    Hi all,
                    Quote thing is broken on my machine - sorry.

                    Zero-Tau "Game balance is more important than realism"

                    It is to a point but as I have pointed out in terraforming thread it has to be taken account of somewhere. You will always get a challening start location some time. Just restart the game until you get a green plain of 100 tiles or so for your CIV.

                    Only the civilization building the city on a narrow strip can pass through it. There is an interesting possibility here. A right of passage based on per use basis. Pay x gold to let a ship through, will they? Are you going to sneak attack them with the same ship loaded with troops?

                    Continental splitting canals and those to lakes are a phenomenon of the 19th and 20th centuries. Suez, Panama famous. Don't know the Great Lakes one name in America/Canada. Hugely expensive to maintain and cost to pay for passage. Important, Suez caused a war between Egypt and UK for control. Does Panama own the canal or is it still USA ZOC for income?

                    I do not think it is right for ships to pass through strategically placed cities. I know of no such cities in the world and this should be stopped immediately. City should only be on one edge of the tile for purposes of access to the sea by ships.

                    I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of big canals coming with the industrial age to ease transport problems. These should be a maximum of three squares long. With a city each end could be five squares. Right Of Passage to canal for all nations with no question asked and Income to host CIV that owns it. First one built is a Great Wonder constructed by workers rather than city. When built by other CIVS small wonders. Then you can only have one. Of course huge cost but also huge income when done.

                    Smaller canals were built in the UK. This was initially because of the quality of the roads and transport being so poor that the new goods had no means of mass transport in the growing industrial revolution. It was a small gap of history before the railways were developed. However these canals are very important for tourism now 200 years later. The effect of tourism in the modern era using great monuments of the past should surely not be dismissed by the game.

                    While we are here there is a question of navigable rivers which in the case of USA were and are very important and much bigger than any canals. Perhaps this type of landscape could be introduced as a fixed unit that can carry ships.

                    Regards
                    Sun_Tzu
                    Lady Astor : "If I were your wife I would put poison in your drink"
                    Churchill : "If I were your husband I would gladly drink it"
                    Unclear words can wipe out all human life on earth if used improperly

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sun_tzu_159
                      Continental splitting canals and those to lakes are a phenomenon of the 19th and 20th centuries. Suez, Panama famous. Don't know the Great Lakes one name in America/Canada. Hugely expensive to maintain and cost to pay for passage. Important, Suez caused a war between Egypt and UK for control. Does Panama own the canal or is it still USA ZOC for income?
                      What about the Corinth Canal? Is it modern? And wasn't there a canal (northern Greece) that cut across one of the peninsulas south of Thessaloniki? And did Russia have early canals linking its major rivers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello,

                        I am sure topics are repeated all the time, but if I feel like talking about something then I'll post it, if you don't feel like talking about something then don't read it. Also, everyone who owns this game was not camping outside the store the day it came out, hence those of us who bought it a little later may have missed a few threads.

                        I feel that anything more than two tiles would be too long. Yes there are very long canals in the world, but those are for barges and things that require rather shallow draft and short (to avoid bridges) vessels. The scale of the game means that any canal would have to allow aircraft carriers through, and those canals are few and far between and relatively short. of course you could always make a three tile canal by having canal tile, city, canal tile as some have mentioned.
                        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                        • #13
                          how much influence has the Mironesianas really had on the world?
                          Huh? How about the British and the Japanese? As to canals, Britain's canal system preceded railways
                          as the key transportation echnology of the early
                          industrial revolution.

                          Anyway, more complexity & more options are good for
                          gameplay - what civ is all aboutthe

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Patroklos,
                            The two more ancient canals did not split a continent they only crossed peninsulas at narrow points. However it is a good point and could be added to the early game for single tile canals.

                            The Russians linked St Peterburg to the Black Sea I think and in South America Orinoco and Amazon are linked also. But in CIVIII the rivers are not navigable yet.

                            If we have canals we could also have tunnels such as in Japan & UK/France that link islands to continents

                            I agree with CivJunkie, the more variables are added the better it gets for the AI as human cannot cope with lots of stuff at once. Try AOE and you see what I mean.

                            Regards
                            SUN_TZU
                            Lady Astor : "If I were your wife I would put poison in your drink"
                            Churchill : "If I were your husband I would gladly drink it"
                            Unclear words can wipe out all human life on earth if used improperly

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Patroklos, ignore the "howlers." Just because a subject has been discussed by the lifers, doesn't mean you can't.

                              BTW: canals

                              "In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
                              —Orson Welles as Harry Lime

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