Alexander The Not-So-Great???

[MarkG]

As far as being united for common causes, the unity always came at a price, usually monetary.

so every nationality in the world today is at the state it is, only because the people of that nationality had similar economic interests?

Lets not forget the battle of marathon, how late were Greek 'allies' the spartans?

well that's the difference between a nation of city-states and a nation with a centrified goverment....

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Well I will buy it that the contemporary Greeks didn't call Phillip a barbarian.

good

However, he is STILL called Phillip the Barbarian much of the time.

please find me more than one quote

However if you had posted a link for THIS Macedonian site about Phillip you would see a somewhat different point of view.

1) history is about facts not opinions
2) second, that's not a macedonian page, it's a "macedonian" page(yeap the quote marks are necessary), and it's not "a different view" but a collection of half-truths(also called propaganda)

example:
For instance, Herodotus, relates how the Macedonian king Alexander I (498-454 BC) ... wanted to take a part in the Olympic games. The Greek athletes protested, saying they would not run with a barbarian.
the author forgot to say that according to Herodotus, Alexander proved his Greek(Argive to be exact, btw there is an city called Argos Orestikon in Macedonia and one called Argos in Peloponnesus) origin and DID in fact take part in the games.

So please check your references first before posting a link

I have been called an idiot here allready. You are too late.

that doesnt mean that you ARE an idiot though

calling you an idiot today in order to insult you and turn people against you is the same as calling an ancient greek a barbarian....

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by MarkG
1) history is about facts not opinions

Read "opinions accepted as facts."
And who is it that "accepts the facts?" As a gross example: If Hitler had won WWII, how would history previous to WWII have been "rewritten"? After it was rewritten it STILL would have been the true "history".

As it is today, history varies with who is presenting it. Who knows what "facts" have been totally skewed or buried in my (or your) present view of history?

When/if George W. invades Iraq, be assured that strong evidence will be found of "weapons of mass destruction" and that will become part of history. Regardless of whether they actually exist. Especially regarding wars, the winner writes the history.

[MarkG]

at least you will agree JayBe that history is about fully taking into account the sources in their whole, and not keeping the parts that we like, as shown in the example from the page Ethelred gave

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by MarkG
at least you will agree JayBe that history is about fully taking into account the sources in their whole, and not keeping the parts that we like, as shown in the example from the page Ethelred gave

\

As in your example as well. Or pehaps I missed them mentioning the athletes calling Alexander I a barbarian at Olymplia.

Besides Philip had a beard. So he was a barbarian on his face.

[MarkG]

ok good.
you found two examples in a time span of 150 years that a Macedonian was accused of being a barbarian
in both cases it was not for a reason other than self-interest, but what anyway...

clap, clap, clap

[Ethelred]

Self-interest is always involved in calling someone a barbarian so that doesn't invalidate anything.


What you think only Macedonians have been called barbarian? I live in Southern California. We export barbarism. McDonald's for instance.

[Athitis]

Originally posted by Ethelred
\
Besides Philip had a beard. So he was a barbarian on his face.

Wrong. Most ancient greeks had beards.

I am sorry to have triggered such an upleasant conversation( if you could name it one). I feel even worst when people say they have the books and are not affected by propaganda too. But the worst part are when they are not willing to listen to you. What's all this anger and hatred when it comes to the Greeks? I have not a read single thread not accusing them of something (other than a Greek's of course)!

[Ethelred]

Wrong. Most ancient greeks had beards.

Hey! What are you trying to do? Bring facts into this?

But the worst part are when they are not willing to listen to you. What's all this anger and hatred when it comes to the Greeks? I have not a read single thread not accusing them of something (other than a Greek's of course)!

What anger? What hatred? The way you are talking we must all be Turks.

Perhaps you should try some different threads. I can assure you that there are gobs more Amerca bashing threads. Lots of Canada bashing and general Euro bashing as well.

Besides Alexander looks consitipated in Civ III. Isn't that enough reason to bash him?

[MarkG]

ok, lets end this thread before it gets too silly

at least i think we all agree that the artist that did Alexander in civ3 was sleeping during history lessons...