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  • Duration of Government

    The situations of my latest game have required me to stick with Monarchy for a very long time ( more than 200 turns!). After thinking about this for a while, I have concluded that you should be rewarded for sticking with the same government for a long time.

    Governments don't stay the same for hundreds of years, they evolve. Why should my Monarchy have given me the same benefits from its inception in 200 B.C. as it does in 1850 A.D.? I think that if you keep your type of government type for a certain number of turns, you should be able to modify it. For instance, I could be able to turn my Monarchy into a Constitutional monarchy in the manner of Imperial Britain, giving my people more freedom and allowing the same trade rate as a base Democracy. I could also decide to turn my Monarchy into an Absolute Monarchy in the French manner and be able to pacify more citizens militarily. Both forms should be better at handling Corruption than feudal Monarchy. All government types should evolve.

    This would reward people for staying in the same government for a long time, because it would reward stability. Stable states are much more effective at governing than are unstable states. On the other side, starting a revolution in these advanced states should cause a longer period of anarchy. After all, it is hard to overturn an advanced government. When order is finally restored, the new form of government will start out at a base level and have to develop. Base Democracy might not generate as much wealth as a Constitutional Monarchy at first.

    Allowing governments to evovle would make all of the governments viable throughout the game. No longer would people automatically switch governments, because the more modern government might not be as beneficial to their civilization as the old government. This would add strategy and depth to the game, and reward those who keep stable Civilizations.
    "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796

  • #2
    A kind of sub-government, that you would choose after a duration of time with a certain government, I like

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    • #3
      Wasn't there something similar in MOO 2? Your government type would evolve after a certain technology was reached or something similar?
      Making the Civ-world a better place (and working up to King) one post at a time....

      Comment


      • #4
        Not sure. I just think that it would make the game more interesting. Right now, you just move from government to government almost automatically. This could balance government forms better and add a deeper strategy to an as now pretty cut and dry issue. As of now, there is no reason to choose Monarchy over Communism or Democracy unless there are extinuating circumstances (such as in my case).
        "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by N. Machiavelli
          Wasn't there something similar in MOO 2? Your government type would evolve after a certain technology was reached or something similar?
          As a direct function of technological advancement; only indirectly a function of time (or duration of same the government if you like). Additionally, you couldn't change your government-type in MOO2: If you're Unification, you go to Galactic Unification; if you're Feudal, you go to Confederacy; if you're Democracy, you go to Federation et al.

          I agree that it would be nice if maintaining a stable government were rewarded for being maintain for long durations.

          Maybe in Civilization IV...
          The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

          The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

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          • #6
            This is kind of a cool idea, but I'd still prefer a SMACish style of government system. Maybe a mixture of both would be cool. Like instead of choosing a Green Monarchy or something, you'd be able to implement a Constitutional Monarchy with a separate tech. Now that'd be cool!

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            • #7
              Perhaps attaching the option to a tech, like constitutional monarchy to democracy. Actually, since my understanding is that you can add governments to the editor, you could just create new governments and attach them to existing techs. Just take the base of Monarchy, and better military policing, or better trade bonuses, and so on. Maybe you could even have an improved form of communism that actually works.
              Rhett Monroe Chassereau

              "I use to be with it, then they changed what it is. And what I'm with isn't it, and what is it seems strange and scary to me." -Abe Simpson

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              • #8
                The point is that I don't want it to be a new tech. A new tech would force you to have a revolution. What I am proposing are changes based solely on number of turns you have been in the government. When you have been under feudal Monarchy (that is what I call Monarchy as it is presently shown) you get the option of evolving your monarchy into either Constituional Monarchy or Absolute Monarchy. It wouldn't require a revolution to become the more advanced monarchy, it would represent the evolution of the government. It would be a reward for sticking with a form of government for a long time. Adding a Constitutional Monarchy tech requiring revolution would totally defeat the purpose.
                "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796

                Comment


                • #9
                  My suggestion was just a means of implementing your idea, which I feel is a good one, as well as can be done within the means at hand.
                  Rhett Monroe Chassereau

                  "I use to be with it, then they changed what it is. And what I'm with isn't it, and what is it seems strange and scary to me." -Abe Simpson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Perhaps better over time...

                    I think Nationalist's idea is an excellent one, but like many of the other posters, I don't like the idea of "sub-governments" or associating these benefits with a tech.

                    The game mechanics related to government type are:

                    - Corruption
                    - Unit support costs
                    - Tile production
                    - Bonus revenue
                    - Pop/gold rushing
                    - Worker efficiency
                    - Spy efficiency
                    - Resistance to propaganda
                    - War weariness

                    I suggest that the various governments improve over time in regards to these game mechanics.

                    Examples:

                    - After 100 turns of the same government, corruption decreases by 25%.

                    - After 100 turns of Monarchy, Republic, or Democracy, improvement rushes cost 25% less.

                    - After 100 turns of Democracy, worker efficiency increases by 25%.

                    I've thought about this for exactly the time it has taken me to read these posts and formulate a reply so I'm sure there are a lot of better ideas out there.

                    - TT

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      TT,

                      Yeah, that is along the lines of what I was talking about. You should get some sort of bonus for staying in a stable government for a long time. I still like my idea of those changes coming along with a modified government name (ie after 100 turns your Monarchy becomes a Constitutional Monarchy or an Absolute Monarchy and you get the bonuses that you prescribed.) This process would have nothing to do with tech progression.
                      "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nationalist
                        Yeah, that is along the lines of what I was talking about. You should get some sort of bonus for staying in a stable government for a long time.
                        I am not sure if this bonus would be realistic/justified for all sorts of governments. Certain types (monarchy/feudalism, communism) tend to degenerate over time, so a malus might be more appropriate as far as realism is concerned... it may be a good way to make more advanced forms of government (like democracy) more viable...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by vondrack

                          I am not sure if this bonus would be realistic/justified for all sorts of governments. Certain types (monarchy/feudalism, communism) tend to degenerate over time, so a malus might be more appropriate as far as realism is concerned... it may be a good way to make more advanced forms of government (like democracy) more viable...
                          So it could depend on the mood of the empire, more than 25% of turns with more than half of the cities rioting, it degrades, less than 25% it improves (and this would be calculated from the start of the governemnt), or something similar.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Perhaps better over time...

                            Originally posted by ToeTruck
                            - After 100 turns of Democracy, worker efficiency increases by 25%.
                            If you were to implement Nationalist's idea, you would have to at least require 200 turns of the same government. Additionally (since I generally beeline for Demo), I would find increased worker efficiency to be pretty useless by the time my 200 turns was up in Demo. That would be especially true with an Industrious Civ. I'd much rather have something like an increase in trade or -- better yet -- an increase in the number of happy faces created by luxuries. In fact, that would make a lot of sense, since I really think that we Americans have become VERY content (read: spoiled) with our "luxuries" and couldn't imagine not having them.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by vondrack

                              Certain types (monarchy/feudalism, communism) tend to degenerate over time, so a malus might be more appropriate as far as realism is concerned
                              It may not be 100% accurate, but I think that my idea has at least some historical weight.

                              Look at the British Monarchy. It has been evolving for a thousand years. The power of the monarch has declined almost completely, but the Monarch is still there. It is still technically the monarchy. This isn't a decline so much as an evolution. The decline of Communism is also an evolution. It started as "base" Communism (Leninist U.S.S.R.), evolved into Totalitarian (Stalinist), then it started liberalizing slighty, evoloving into Gorbachev's more liberal Communism. The goernment still had the same basic structure throughout all of the periods, the policies just developed as time went on. (Granted, these are the most minimalist of summaries)
                              The change to Democracy was like a Civ 3 revolution. The entire structure of the government had changed.

                              Overall, my idea is meant to make government types other than Democrcay and Communism viable during the last half of the game. Maybe there could be a way to implement a decline in the government, to show that some systems have simply declined rather than evolved. Maybe causing a spontaneous coup de tat or revolution if things aren't acceptable (I.E. serious disorder in multiple turns for long lengths of time.)
                              "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796

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