question about captured wonders

[lateralis]

ok, lets say you capture a city with a wonder(s) in it a couple of questions:

1. if a city has more than one, do you get to keep all of them? when capuring a city the military guy pops up and says "we now control _______" does he ever say "we control ________ and _________"?

2. I'm still a little unclear on what you get, I know you get whatever the wonder does (if not obsolete ala hanging gardens/flight(is that right)) such as granaries if captuing the pyramids. so then you get granaries. lets say you lose the city with pyramids next turn, do you keep the granaries? also, do I remember right that you don't get any cultural points from these wonders?

3. you capture a city with a wonder and raze it. that wonder, i'm assuming, is gone forever yes? no one will ever get it again (until the next game ) and thus no one gets the benefit of that wonder, unless (reffering to my second question) if you hold the city for one turn to get graneries/pyramids or barracks/ suntzu and then abandon the city will you keep those improvements. if no, does the game keep a record of where you had legitimately built granaries or barracks and just remove those or do you lose all everywhere?


thaks in advance

lateralis

[cracker]

1. the "guy" will only declare one wonder to you but you get to keep them all if you keep the city.

2. you get the effect of the wonders but no culture. you will see no musical notes next to the wonder in the improvement list. The effects of the wonders do not continue after the wonder is no longer in your possession. This can be a tiny bit complicated, but if you had a granary in a city before you got the pyramids, that granary continues to exist even when the pyramids would technically add a granary. The pyramids eliminate the maintenance costs of granaries that already exist.

3. When the city containing a wonder is razed or abandoned, the effects of the wonder are lost forever and it pisses off the AI players a bit. Any granaries or reduced costs that you got from the pyramids would just vanish.

two wierd wonder effects that have been documented:
a) captured wonders will not immediately stimulate a Golden Age, but if you have one captured one of the wonders to stimulate your GA and then build the next required wonder, BINGO.

b) wonders that confer buildings on other cities basically confer a building that cannot possible be destroyed. The combination of wonders, the palace, and the building conferred by wonders may distort the bombardment defense for a city by artificially increasing the rate of misses.

[Moonsinger]

Re: question about captured wonders

Originally posted by lateralis
1. if a city has more than one, do you get to keep all of them? when capuring a city the military guy pops up and says "we now control _______" does he ever say "we control ________ and _________"?

Yes, you keep all Great Wonders within that city. Note: All small Wonder would be destroyed.

2. I'm still a little unclear on what you get, I know you get whatever the wonder does (if not obsolete ala hanging gardens/flight(is that right)) such as granaries if captuing the pyramids. so then you get granaries. lets say you lose the city with pyramids next turn, do you keep the granaries? also, do I remember right that you don't get any cultural points from these wonders?

You would get cultural points only for Wonders that you build yourself.

3. you capture a city with a wonder and raze it. that wonder, i'm assuming, is gone forever yes? no one will ever get it again (until the next game )

True!

and thus no one gets the benefit of that wonder, unless (reffering to my second question) if you hold the city for one turn to get graneries/pyramids or barracks/ suntzu and then abandon the city will you keep those improvements. if no, does the game keep a record of where you had legitimately built granaries or barracks and just remove those or do you lose all everywhere?

Those graneries or barracks created by the Pyramids and Sun Tzu would be gone as well.

[JohnM2433]

The game does keep track of which improvements a city built by itself and which it gets from Wonders. The original city improvements exist, but you do not pay maintenance on them. Further, you can actually check if a city has a barracks or granary of its "own".

Go into the city screen. Right-click on the improvement. If the city built the improvement (and never lost it), you will be given the option to sell it. If you can't, that means the improvement doesn't really exist in the city, but its effects are felt due to the Wonder. If you sell off the improvement, the city will still have the Wonder-provided substitute, but not the origianal.

I haven't actually seen it myself, but the Wonder-provided substitute improvements presumably vanish if the Wonder falls out of your control (the city is captured, razed, or abandoned). For this reason, you should avoid selling off these improvements unless you need the money or the city is about to be captured (since you're no longer paying maintenance on them). The same goes for obsolete walls (walls in Cities and Metros), btw. (To make myself clear: you might need those Wonder-obsoleted improvements if you lose the Wonder, and you might need the walls if the city drops below pop 7, so there's no sense selling them until you need to. Selling no-maintenance improvements for the cash, rather than to keep them from being captured, is really very minor micromanagement, given how little gold we are given for selling them in Civ III, and many players probably wouldn't even bother with it unless they were really desperate for gold. Still, thought I would mention it.)

cracker: in the case that was originally described, the Wonder that triggered the Golden Age was one that wouldn't normally do so. Since the player controlled both required types of Wonders, however, it was theorized that every time you complete a GW, the game checks to see whether you control both types of Wonders required for a GA, and begins one if you do. So the Wonder that triggers the GA may or may not be of a required type, so long as both types are in the player's posession upon its completion. This is all speculation, btw, but sounds like a reasonable explanation. In any case, there is obviously some sort of bug here.

Do you know whether bombardment will actually "aim for" GWs or improvements that cannot be destroyed? Incedentally, can Small Wonders be destroyed by bombardment? (I'm guessing no.)

[Catt]

I haven't bothered to test it myself, but another poster whose opinion I respect shared his/her discovery that a city with a coal plant, even after building Hoover Dam (free effects of a hydro plant in all continental cities), will still produce pollution. I used to be pretty lacksadaisical about selling off any of the few coal plants I might have built while waiting for an expected Hoover Dam, but knowing (believing) that a coal plant not only costs a few shekels maintenence but also continues to produce pollution after the spiffy new electrical lines carrying Hoover's power arrives in the city . . . well, now I am pretty circumspect about selling off any coal plants as soon as Hoover is built.

Catt

[vmxa1]

Yes they will hurt pollution and in fact I do not make coal plants at all. I have enough blobs to clean already. I am not sure about coal plants, but you can not have Solar/hydo/nuc at the same time, build one and the other goes away IIRC.

[fittstim]

I'm not 100% positive but I'm pretty sure that you can, in fact, have two factories producing shields in the same city at one time. So it isn't always wisest to sell off those polluting Power Plants immediately.

I seem to remember this discussion from a while ago:

If you have the Hoover Dam, you get a Hydro Plant in all of your cities (on the same continent, that is). If you then build a Power Plant (or Nuke- whatever), it should theoretically override and destroy the previously build plant. But since the Hoover Dam provides a Hydro Plant in perpetuity the plant can not be destroyed (or is somehow rebuilt every turn). Thus you see the effects of having both a Hydro Plant AND a second plant in these cities.

Or at least, that's what I'm led to believe...

[Laertes]

I may be remembering this incorrectly, but when I was first playing, I built some coal plants and then got the Hoover Dam.

Careful reading of these columns and the guide led me to sell all the coal plants, which had no effect on production but did reduce pollution

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by JohnM2433
The game does keep track of which improvements a city built by itself and which it gets from Wonders. The original city improvements exist, but you do not pay maintenance on them. Further, you can actually check if a city has a barracks or granary of its "own".

Usually, I sell off all of those original barracks or granaries for extra cash. Once I get a hold of the Pyramid or the Sun Tzu, I would defend them with all costs; therefore, I don't need to keep those original improvements.

[Catt]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I am not sure about coal plants, but you can not have Solar/hydo/nuc at the same time, build one and the other goes away IIRC.

That's exactly right - the only exception is that any plant you build yourself will show up in the city improvements window, as will the hydro plant icon that is generated solely because of your ownership of Hoover Dam. Even though you see two power plant icons in the improvements window, you only get the 50% (100% in the case of a nuclear plant) production bonus once (i.e., you don't get a boost both from the free Hoover hyrdo and the coal / solar / nuclear plant you may build).

Catt

[georges bonbon]

Does that mean if you rase the city, containing the Manhattan Project, the making of nuclear warheads will be impossible?

[Kampus majore]

Yes, it probably does. But the nukes already being build will still be finished. You cannot build new ones.

This is why it should be a small wonder....

[vmxa1]

I never liked the idea that if one gets it all get it. You should have to research the tech and have uranium at a minimum. A small wonder would be better.

[Wormwood]

Is there any way in the wonder to assign it small wonder status, and not make it universal.

[Catt]

Originally posted by georges bonbon
Does that mean if you rase the city, containing the Manhattan Project, the making of nuclear warheads will be impossible?

I tested this in one of the AU games (or MT games) and found that the destruction of the MP did not preclude future nuke biuilding. Once the MP is built, you can't really put the genie back into the bottle - nukes will be there to stay.

Originally posted by Wormwood
Is there any way in the wonder to assign it small wonder status, and not make it universal.

I've never tried it myself (so take this with a grain of salt), but have read of repeated attempts to do this without success -- it seems that the "allow nuclear weapons" flag in the editor always makes nukes available to all civs - there doesn't seem to be a way to limit it to "allow nukes for civ that builds improvement."

Catt