About capturing planes

[vulture]

Originally posted by vmxa1
One more thing is that you can add units or cities to a map and not get any msg about the rules not being std. This is because I did not change any rules.

My tests were definitely done with a standard bic, because I make a point of not changing the default bic that comes with the game. Even the mod I normally use (which just has more city names and changes a few spellings) gets a seperate bic file and has to be loaded as a scenario every time. Anyway, when I loaded th test bic (default rules plus map) I didn't get any 'non-standard rules' warning AFAIR. Will post it if you are interested.

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Somebody from Firaxis could enlighten us on this one.

Of all the time I have been here, I notice that Firaxian won't come when we need them. I guess they just refuse to be summoned by us. Therefore, my prediction is that they won't come to this thread.

PS: After having said that, they would post in this thread to prove me wrong, but then again, I'm just a pebble of sand under their feet. I'm not that important for them notice.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
PS: After having said that, they would post in this thread to prove me wrong, but then again, I'm just a pebble of sand under their feet. I'm not that important for them notice.

I'm sure that if they will ever post in this thread, it will be for the sole purpose of proving that you are wrong. For you, it's a win-win situation: either you are right and they won't post or they will post and we got you to thank for it.

[bongo]

I don't think we need firaxis on this one. We have pretty much figured out most of it ourself already. Besides, if they could be summoned to answer our smallest questions then this forum would be a lot more quiet

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Catt


Mysterious.

Attached is a zip file with two scenario bics. In each game, the entire map consists of a very small square island. The human, playing as Rome, starts off with 3 cities and six modern armor. The AI (just to the north) starts off with one city -- in the city is a spearman, a bomber, a jet fighter, 2 stealth bombers and 2 stealth fighters. Each civ starts off with a bunch of gold. Each starts off in Monarchy or some other advanced government. The AI Egyptians start out with all techs discovered. The human Romans start out with (1) all techs up to stealth, in one bic, and (2) all techs, in the other bic.

I played the opening two turns of each scenario several times, each time with preserve random seed off, and with all unit animations on. My opening moves were to: (1) fortify all units; (2) move one MA into Egyptian territory; (3) contact the spearman in Thebes; (4) just click on "That's all Cleopatra" without concluding any deal; (5) move MA back out of Thebes territory; (6) end turn; (7) establish embassy (to see the units in Thebes); and (8) attack with an MA. (In each case, Cleo seems to have disbanded the spearman and rushed a rifleman, or upgraded the spearman into a rifleman).

In each test case: (1) using the scenario bic in which the human hasn't discovered Stealth, all planes are destroyed; and (2) using the scenario bic in which the human has discovered Stealth, the regular bomber and jet fighter are destroyed but the 2 SBs and 2 SFs are captured.

(On a side note, in the "human has all techs" version, the second turn produces a "We want to improve your palace" while the "human behind in techs" version no palace improvement is offered - tech advancement as one of many other triggers on spontaneous palace imrpovements?)

Catt

The SB and SF were destroyed in both case. You edited the rules so there must be somthing wrong with the bic file. Either that or you didn't place the needed resources.

Post a save.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by vulture


That seems like a rather complex way of doing it. Why not just create an AI city (or several) with all different aircraft in it, give yourself a pile of MA next to each one, load up the game, and then just attack each city? You have to make sure that the cities are large enough/have culture so that they are not destroyed (nothing apart from ground artillery gets captured if the city is razed of course - btw what happens in the game if you abandon a city with aircraft in it? I've never tried (for obvious reasons)). You can do all of this on your first turn since you can put your MA right next to the AI cities (but it'll ruin your reputation ) so that the AI doesn't have time to move or sell any units. You can also give it a huge pile of gold so that it doesn't need to sell anything yet.

Because it is agreed that if you do not have the required tech you can not capture anything. In order to have the tech on the first turn, I would have to change the rules. The save from Catt crashed so I do not know if it works even with a modified rule set.

[vmxa1]

bongo. all of that was noted and the only thing in doubt by some is the capture of the stl bomber. The list may be completely accurate, but a few have not been able to observe the SB being captured. AFAIK the rules disalllow capture of any aircraft. I could be confused, but I thought I have met all of the conditions and the SB was destroyed, so I could be wrong, that is what the hullabaloo is about.

[vulture]

Originally posted by vmxa1


Because it is agreed that if you do not have the required tech you can not capture anything. In order to have the tech on the first turn, I would have to change the rules. The save from Catt crashed so I do not know if it works even with a modified rule set.

Giving techs to players in a scenario isn't part of the rules. In the editor (at least on my machine) there are flags (on pull down menus) for 'custom rules' and 'custom player properties' (or something like that). You can give various techs to the civs in the player properties interface without ever changing the rules (the 'custom rules' flag remains unticked). You can *also* give techs out in the rules section, but that will give the 'rules have been changed' message, while doing in the player properties interface wont.

[vmxa1]

Ok, thanks. I still wanted to get them without that, if I could as if I give them and it still does not capture, I would have had that doubt. It only take a few mintues to run up the tech tree, since little happens. I am not moving any units or doing any building. I may give that a shot, but Thrawn05 has already use Catts map with the done and the planes were not captured.

[Catt]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Now it is not correct that you get the rules changed when you place things.

You're right - I recreated the test with vulture's advice to use only the player properties, it worked fine (without the rules warning).

Originally posted by Thrawn05
The SB and SF were destroyed in both case. You edited the rules so there must be somthing wrong with the bic file. Either that or you didn't place the needed resources.

Post a save.

Strange - on my machine the SBs and SFs were destroyed without the tech, and captured with the tech. Same thing with my revised test scenarios. I can't post a save because I have no saved games where I even ever get to Stealth technology.

Now, trying for a second time, here is more or less the same test scenario, but with careful modding so as only to place cities and units - no rule changes whatsoever (and I didn't get the "rules have been modified" warning) -- I gave the Egyptians two cities and riflemen instead of spearmen. I attacked Thebes on turn two (after establishing an embassy to see the garrisoned planes were still there. Taking the same opening moves as I posted with the original test scenarios (and obviously using the Load Scenario button to launch the game), I capture the stealth planes when Rome already has discovered Stealth and destroy them when Rome hasn't discovered Stealth.

Catt

[vmxa1]

Ok, I that worked and ends it for me thanks.