Best Use Of A Leader?

[IRON_BRIGADE]

My question is this, I have a leader I am also about to finish Copernicous's Labratory the situation is that another civ is a bit closer than I to finishing it.
Is it worth it to use this leader for this wonder or scrap the wonder and keep the leader?
A little background info I am playing the germans so obtaining this wonder realy benifits me how? I know the basic definition but what does it really do in the long run or would the leader be better. The city it is being completed in really needs NO more culture than it has already.

[Tiberius]

Re: Best Use Of A Leader?

Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE
Copernicous's Labratory

Copernicous's Labratory? I presume you are a modder and combined the Copernicus' Observatory with a Goblin's Laboratory (from Warcraft3) ? Then rush the wonder and build some zeppelins!

Anyway, I'd keep the leader for a better wonder or build an army with it.
Edited: ...or build the FP if you don't have it yet.

[Moonsinger]

Since the Copernicous's Labratory just simply doubles science output in that one city, it's not really worth a life of a great leader. I would save him for the Adam Smith.

[zeh]

If you think you can't build Copernicus, change it to another wonder, if there are none aviable, change to palace, then to a wonder when you get the tech.
With your leader, you can build an army, win a battle and build Heroic Epic to be able to get mor leaders and rush wonders that will come, like Magellan's and Universal Sufrage.

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by zeh
If you think you can't build Copernicus, change it to another wonder, if there are none aviable, change to palace, then to a wonder when you get the tech.

Yup! Normally, I pre-build the palace and switch it to the Wonder in the last turn; that's way, if the AI beat me to the Wonder, I won't lose all those shields.

PS: If you have the gold, you could investigate their cities to see how far they have to go.

[bigvic]

look dude - youu are the gerrmans, right? build an army, beat some puny rabble opposition, and build the heroic epic as soon as possible, hell, build it wherre you were going to build copernicus' observatory by swithching overr production. then, with the increased chance to get more leaders, you can aim for newtons university, if you want to burn a leader for a wonder. you'll probably get sewveral more with the heroic epic as the militaristic germans - if you stay at war. and unless you are perverse, or just in the middle of a breathing space infrastructure buildup, if you are the germans, you should be at war most of the time, stealling gold from vaults, bulying enemies for gold, luxuries, maps, cities, and tech, then ganking them when you feel like it. a good, well thought out steady war strategy with a militaristic civ like the germans is the best way to develop. just be smart about it and run a cool diplomatic game - unless you are just plain mean.

but build that army - do it!

[Keeper of Hell]

Germans aren't necessarily a great choice for constant militaristic expansion unless you happen to have a fortuitous situation like this developing. Basically, with Germany, you have two primary directives: early archer rush(es) to keep locals in check in Ancient Times, then settle down and keep yourself unobtrusive until Motorized Transportation. Once you make it, start the blitzkrieg, using the GA you get to fuel a meteoric ascent to power and dominance. The Panzer blitzes don't stop until Computers (and, by association, MI). As the Germans, you don't need to be constantly fighting to get to the top eventually... just keep yourself in the running and bide your time, then make your foes pay when you develop the mighty Panzer.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by bigvic
build an army, beat some puny rabble opposition, and build the heroic epic as soon as possible, hell, build it wherre you were going to build copernicus' observatory by swithching overr production

That's exactly what I was going to suggest.

[IRON_BRIGADE]

Well here is the thing I am still in the learning stages of this game and only recently have I been able to survive as far as I have before they all are pissed at me and crush me. I play scientific to stay ahead of the race and to have some barganing chips to keep the ai's happy and make a little gold on the side. I only chose the militaristic charactoristic because I need a strong defense for when one of those civs comes and tries to topple me. Frankly I have a very difficult time mounting any offense in the early game I just cant seem to get that balance between many war units and expansion and city improvements and on and on that is really were i fail not enough war units then you have to contend with a mysterious war model Tell me how a regular spearman in the woods can take down a veteran pikeman on level plains Pikeman is offense in this case Or a stinking warrior taking down a swordsman. these are topics that could start a whole new thread, Mystries to me.
So in my current game I am playing against 4 other civs and we are about 1300AD they are all except one polite or causios to me and the one russian civ which i pinched into a peace treaty by taking a city and giving it back will go back to war at the drop of a hat. I am attempting to back fill what is left of the whole map all the while i have the others attempting to sneek across my land to get behind me. I kick em off they start to get pissed I have accumulated the most wonders of any civ on the map so far about 5 or 6 i think
any thoughts

[vondrack]

Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE
Well here is the thing I am still in the learning stages of this game and only recently have I been able to survive as far as I have before they all are pissed at me and crush me. I play scientific to stay ahead of the race and to have some barganing chips to keep the ai's happy and make a little gold on the side. I only chose the militaristic charactoristic because I need a strong defense for when one of those civs comes and tries to topple me.

I will not go into details, but you may wish to reread the chapter on specific civ traits in your manual. I have that feeling that you are not 100% correct about what various traits mean. For example, being militaristic does very little in terms of your defense (however, it makes your barracks cheaper to build and promotes your victorious units more often).

Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE
Frankly I have a very difficult time mounting any offense in the early game I just cant seem to get that balance between many war units and expansion and city improvements and on and on that is really were i fail not enough war units then you have to contend with a mysterious war model Tell me how a regular spearman in the woods can take down a veteran pikeman on level plains Pikeman is offense in this case Or a stinking warrior taking down a swordsman. these are topics that could start a whole new thread, Mystries to me.

OK, it is something you HAVE to understand before going to war. The combat model in Civ3 is based on the ADM characteristics of individual units.

A = attack rating
D = defense rating
M = movement

The spearman is a 1/2/1 unit. It has an attack rating of 1, defense rating of 2, and movement of 1. Similarly, the pikeman is a 1/3/1 unit. Whenever two units fight each other, it's basically about dice rolls. The attacker uses an A-sided dice, the defender uses a D-sided dice (actually a Dmod-sided dice, as the defender almost always gets some sort of a defensive bonus).

Assume this pikemen of yours attacks an enemy spearman that happens to be stationed in a forest. First, so-called modifiers are determined. In this case, any unit defending in a forest gets a defensive bonus of 25%... the spearman becomes effectively a 1/2.5/1 unit.

The two units throw their dices then... in each roll, random numbers from <0;A> (i.e. <0;1> in this case) and <0;Dmod> (i.e. <0;2.5> in this case) are generated. Whoever gets the smaller number, looses one hitpoint. This is repeated until one of the units runs out of its hitpoints, dying.

A pikeman attacking a spearman in a forest has only a 1:2,5 (28,5%) chance of winning one round of combat (i.e. lowering the spearman's health by 1 hitpoint). It is because his attack rating is very low (A=1 only). His overall chances of winning the whole battle are even lower (less than 23%), as he has to win 3 rounds, while losing not more than 2. Try the Civulator to see what the chances are for various unit combinations.

You need to use units with a high or relatively high defense for defense (spearmen, pikemen, riflemen, infantry, mech. infantry) and those with a high or relatively high attack rating for attack. Do your best to have your unit use its higher rating whenever possible.

Does this help at least a bit?

[nationalist]

Save your leader for Leonardo's Workshop or Adam Smith's exchange.

[Theseus]

Vondrack, there should be a "I am bowing to you in respect for the effort" emoticon.

[Flight]

personally i thought he made it unnecessarily complicated

[Alantus]

1st leader? Build Army, win fight! Build small wonders! Use second leader to build stuff. I would have hard time burning first leader on a wonder that affects 1 city.

Alantus

[Kingof the Apes]

Yes, I agree with Alantus. Save it for a better wonder, or build an army to kill your enimies the russians. If a civ is ahead of you constructing the observatory, micromanage the city tiles. Leaders come too rarely to use on a wonder that is almost finished.