List of Civilizations

[cpp]

When I said the game would be boring if it was historically accurate, I meant that (as an example) that if the only way the french civilization should emerge, is as a split of the Frankish state.
As S. Kroeze stated

quote: So far to my knowledge no one has suggested that civilizations cannot begin before their historically correct starting date

my impression was wrong.

I find it quite amusing that people are arguing about a problem that can easily be solved. Include Canada (and the rest of the nations mentioned), but make it possible to dissable civs. This way some can play with Canada in the game, while others can play happily with only the ancient civs.

[Biddles]

Actually the Isrealites spawned three of the worlds major religons (Judaism, Chrisianity and Islam).

Judaism
This was formed when Abraham listened to god and headed for Canaan, the promised land. It's story is told in the Old Testament of the bible, (I don't know what the Jewish equivalent of these books are called) and other holy texts. The Jewish people spread throughout the world. They were the target of mltiple atempts to wipe them out (e.g. The Holocaust, but this isn't the only example).

Chrisianity
This is a splinter group of Judaism that was founded when Jesus Christ started his teachings around 1AD (hmmm, I wonder if our calendar is based on this event). After it's death the christians were persecuted until the Roman Emporer Constantine was converted. Christianity spread throughout Europe and it became the dominant force there (even Kings deffered to the church, well most of the time). When the Muslims occupied Jerusalem, the European Christian kingdoms luanched multiple crusades in an attempt to free the city.

Islam
Islam dates back to the time of Abraham as well. Abraham had 2 sons. One went on to lead the Israelites while the other (Ishmael I think) went off and became the Arabic people. Around 600AD The prophet Mohammed began what we know as Islam. If it hadn't been for this the Arabic people would have never become organised. Islam spread from Mecca to as far as West Africa and the Phillipines.

I would say that the Israelites had quite an effect on history.


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- Biddles

"Now that our life-support systems are utilising the new Windows 2027 OS, we don't have to worry about anythi......."
Mars Colonizer Mission

[The Joker]

Seriously Kroeze, that was the funniest post you have made so far! I laughed out loud several times while reading it.

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"It is only when we have lost everything
that we are free to do anything."
- Fight Club

[CornMaster]

quote: Originally posted by S. Kroeze on 08-27-2000 01:36 PM Though this book has for centuries restrained technological and scientific progress, it also teached mankind some positive lessons like morality and the protection of the weak. The two competing books caused more wars and were used as a reason to kill more people than any other range of thought.

Even though off-topic, I couldn't agree more. Religion is what is holding mankind back. Less today in the past but The Bible's evil influence is still here.

quote: There is not one Canadian nation, there are at least two: the English and the French speaking Canadians, separated by religion, language and culture. As far as I know they do not have much sympathy for one another...

You are totally right there too. SOME not all (And it's those some that bother me) French Canadians think they are special and aren't treated well in Canada!! There are more laws and regulations protecting the French than the Natives (Which is another arguement I'm not going to start here). If anything Canada needs to have the same rules for all it's citizens and not seperate them because of language, or culture!! (This topic of French and Native special status bugs me to the core and I just hat the idea!!!)


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"I'm too out of shape for a long fight so I'll have to kill you fast"
Administrator of the CornEmpire Forum
My Civ 2 Scenario Page.

[The Mad Viking]

CornMaster & Vitmore

Canada should not be a civ, it's frankly ridiculous.

Now we have 2 Canadians for, 2 against, and 1 who says you non Canadians are being hostile.

Well, maybe defending an unreasonable position brought that reaction.

Anyway, please mock those holding the position, not the whole population of the country. Its a fine country, with more people in Ontario or Quebec than all of Denmark. Unlike Germany, which pseudo existed as a score of diverse squabbling tribes for centuries, before finally getting together to the chagrin of the rest of the world, which it tried to destroy no less than twice in 25 years. And to suggest that Germany has a unified culture is ridiculous, the north and south in Germany are very different, as are yankees and ex-confederates in the states...

Anyway enough sport. The US is not a civ either, but a split of the British Civ. It is silly to start with Americans in 4000 BCE.

The Hebrews are of course a Civ, although we can't expect support from a Muslim, can we Imran? They're maybe a little like a OCC in civ terms, perhaps a minor tribe in some respects, but of undeniable impact and guess what- the longest lasting civilization on the planet.

[Imran Siddiqui]

My religion has nothing to do with it... although you would try to use it against me.

If the Jews are in Civ... then Buddists should have their civ and don't forget about Islam or Christianity! So that means, Hebrews, Buddists, Islam, and Christianity.

Don't forget the others either.

I don't ****ing care if they had the biggest effect on history ever (actually the greatest effect came from Jesus and Christianity... I don't see them in the game), they aren't a civ. They aren't powerful enough, they aren't good enough.

[Az]

quote: Originally posted by Biddles on 08-28-2000 06:06 AM Islam Islam dates back to the time of Abraham as well. Abraham had 2 sons. One went on to lead the Israelites while the other (Ishmael I think) went off and became the Arabic people. Around 600AD The prophet Mohammed began what we know as Islam. If it hadn't been for this the Arabic people would have never become organised. Islam spread from Mecca to as far as West Africa and the Phillipines.

Well biddles , not exactly . before Mohammed , there is actually very little known about the Arabic religion , But from what is known they were Polytheistic ( that's the right spelling right ? )
Mohammed travelled to the Mediterranean , where he was introduced to Christianity and Judaism . from these religions the Islam deleveloped .


Imran :
in the ancient times the United Kingdom of Israel existed for about 150 years ruling Israel Syria Jordan The Gaza Strip the Philstine trade cities of Gaza Gat Ekron Ashdod and Ashkelon . but before that there is a period of the Israelite tribes living for about 500 years in Israel . after it's days of glory from app. 1000 BC to 1150 BC the Israeli Empire collapsed and split into 2 Kingdoms : Israel and Judea , Judea having the Negev Desert , Jerusalem, Hebron and some lands over the Jordan River ,and Israel having the Northen part of Israel : Samaria , the galilee the Golan heights and also some parts over the Jordan river . both were bordering Bnei Amon .a tribe the capital of which was Rabat-Bnei-Amon aka Amman .
in app 670 BC the Assyrian King Sanhariv conquers Israel and exiles it's whole population to be dispersed in their empire. the Egyptians' Army which have an alliance with Israel is also torn appart.
after the decline of the Assyrians the Babylonians arise. the Babylonian King with one complicated name conquers Jersalem in app. 586 BC and burns down the temple , taking the artifacts to his treasury . he too exiles the people to babylon where they live in a city called ... Tel Aviv . after the decline of Babylon the Persians came . the Persian King Cyrus let the Judeans Have their Gold ware and build the second temple in Jerusalem . During Alexander The Great the Judeans enjoyed full religious freedom ,because of which Alexander has become one of the Jewish names at the period . after the death of ATG his empire was split betweeen his Generals . His succesors were less tolerant to the Judeans.While resisting to the occupation and to the forced Helenisation during which the temple was desacrated , one of the Jewish prestigious families , which served in the temple , started a rebellion that quickly swept through MOST of the people and a liberation movement started . After defeating the 'greeks' and forcing them out , The Judean Kingdom was established once again . in app. 100 BC their allies from the previous war against the 'greeks' , the Romans , conquered Judea . forsing the local queen to be forced out . they placed a king of their own . in app. 60 BC a rebellion defeated the legion posted in Judea and the one posted in Syria . started a local wave of rebellions . in 67 BC the Romans quelled the Rebellion and then burned Jerusalem to the Ground having its riches paraded in Rome .The Roman Commander called the whole area Palestine after the ppl living in the area now known as the Gaza strip . in the 900's the first Jews begin to return to Israel.

in 1882 the Zionist movement begins in Russia .

ATG - Alexander the Great
App. approximately


Dalgetti

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We don't prohibit smoking . We discourage inhaling .

[Imran Siddiqui]

Uh... thanks for the history lesson and all but what is your point?

After all, the Assyrians aren't in the game either. Or the Hittites.

[Az]

Well that's wrong btw . assyrians must be in the game as one of the great empires of the ancient time . my point is that no civ was a superpower for too much time . babylon had a great culture . but it was a superpower only for about 200 years . and superpower only in regional meanings . It was uncomparabely weaker than the chinese kingdoms at the time .

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We don't prohibit smoking . We discourage inhaling .

[Az]

Well that's wrong btw . assyrians must be in the game as one of the great empires of the ancient time .
the hitites (spell?) were the inventors of Iron Working

my point is that no civ was a superpower for too much time . babylon had a great culture . but it was a superpower only for about 200 years . and superpower only in regional meanings . It was uncomparabely weaker than the chinese kingdoms at the time .

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We don't prohibit smoking . We discourage inhaling .

[Andz83]

interesting discussion you brought up here, fellows! go on!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well IF they have 64 civs in the game, then you can include the Hebrews, but I doubt that many will be added to the game...

[Christantine The Great]

I don't know if anyone has said this before because it is impossible for me to look through all of this but these groups of nations, I think, should not belong:

All MODERN American nations;
All MODERN Turkish nations;
All MODERN African nations except Ethopia;
Any MODERN small island nations;

Please, everyone, don't hate me.

P.S. No combo nations like Austria-Hungary and Byzantine Empire, too.


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"Adorare Christantine!!!"
Chrisonian Decree #1

[Lonestar]

hhoooowwwdddyyy

I am astonished that this is even being discussed. Of Course the Hebrews should be represented in CivIII.

It existed as the superpower of Canaan for 150yrs. It remained a major player (though split) for about 300 yrs. In fact, a coalition of Caananite nations, led by Israel smashed the Babylonians in ancient times. Repeatably.

Imran~
I am getting the distinct feeling that you do not have a leg to stand on with your "no-Jews-allowed!" faction.

Jesus may have had a huge influence, but the fact that he was Jewish had a big part to do with that.

Also, the Hebrews have more or less managed to retain their cultural identity for the past 3000 years, while you can travel the world and find Christians with different cultures (damn frogs).

Even in modern times the Hebrews have proven themselves a force to be reckoned with. They have soundly whipped any enemy since the establishment of the state of Israel, and even though they have had the chance many times, they have not dismantled the Dome of The Rock and rebuilt the Temple .

Don't diss the Hebrews. They are a force to be reckoned with, and I wish them luck in crushing the so-called Palestinian State that Arafat's going to delcare on Sept. 13.

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"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you"

"Soylant Green is people. PPPeeeoooppllleee!"

[wernazuma]

hey lonestar, come on

Although I favor israelites in Civ3 (if you read my posts here you saw that), I can't believe you say: "I hope they crush the palestineans"

I still hope the peace-process isn't dead and an agreement can be found, but I fully understand the wish of palestineans for an own state.

Anyway, we should exclude actual politics from here and statements like yours shouldn't have a place here.