Announcement

**Evil Capitalist** · August 3, 2000, 01:49

Just a few points:

Ironclad production did not outdate the wooden ship- the idea appeared in the 1840s, and the panic building of ironclads in the 1860s.

The rowed ship was around until the 19th century, when the Spanish finally disposed of its galleys, since they were good for calm winds. Also to be pedantic the largest ancient ship was the quinqurieme, with the quadrieme being common in the roman era.

**jdlessl** · August 3, 2000, 05:45

How come the cost of the base cavalry doubles? I should think that it would get cheaper, since as time went on, work required to feed and house them grew less and less.

You realize that most of your ships thus become obsolete at 1200BC? Discovery of Iron makes bronze weapons/armor obsolete, not ships.

Ok, so what's the difference between an Air unit and an Air/Land unit? What can one do that the other can't?

For the unit chassis, I'd use the following categories, in the order you develop them:
Land:
Infantry
Chariot
Cavalry
Motorized - tanks, apc's, whatever

Sea: (someone else can come up with names)
Small - trireme for ancient, gunboat for industrial, torpedo boats in modern
Large - Galleons & frigates in industrial, destroyers and cruisers today
SuperSized - the largest battleships and aricraft carriers

Aerospace:
Prop engine
Jet engine
Cruise missiles - cheap, short range
ICBM - expensive, very long range
Helicopter
Scramjet engine - intercontinental planes, no theoretical upper limit on speed. Can take you to orbit if you go fast enough (mach 26)
Orbital weapons platform - fantastic for SDI, bombardment, and scouting

Now, the weapons and armor is what makes or breaks old units, especially sea units. For wooden hulled ships (before ironclads), the armor was really just making the things 'Built Ford Tough' so they can take more of a pounding without sinking, even though they're still made of wood.

I will also say again my belief that the current system of air units (fly for two years before they need to refuel) is really stupid. Make it so they never have to come back to base. Obviously they do, but it's hidden. They spend some time on patrol, back to base for RRR, then on duty again. All you see is them flying where you placed them. Then place a limit on how far they can go from a friendly base. Note that this range is on combat missions. If you simply want to move them from city A to city B, the range is much greater.

Also, planes will not be able to directly attack units (other air units excepted). Rather, they do an area-effect much like artillery in SMAC. Helicopters are the same as planes w/ regard to range, but they can attack units directly (ie, surgical strikes). Taking out orbital platforms takes other weapons entirely, like missiles.

Jared Lessl

**Shadowstrike** · August 3, 2000, 09:13

I have always hated the fact that the basic defensive unit's cost goes up with every incarnation. By the end of the game, new defensive units take 25 turns to build! So, I end up buying these units with a disproportional amount of gold. Please don't make the rising cost in infantry units.

**Strategist** · August 3, 2000, 09:21

Don't you fellows think you exaggerate a bit? I mean all that Workshop stuff sounds more and mor like micromanagement.

I don't have a problem with micromanagement but there should be at least an option to turn that Workshop thing off, I think.

And won't you all agree that it would become boring to design the units by oneself after a short time?

**Christantine The Great** · August 3, 2000, 15:50

I am sorry to announce that I cannot update the chassis portion of the model or submit the other sections of the model due to time constrants. I also can't because of limited internet time and limited planning time. I am sorry.

**Shadowstrike** · August 3, 2000, 17:22

Y'know Stretegist, you kinda have this option in SMAC (the original source of the unit workshop) to design units "automatically". Although it was unable to design units for specific missions, it was sufficent if you wanted to leave unit making to the computer.

**Theben** · August 3, 2000, 19:56

quote:

Originally posted by Strategist on 08-03-2000 09:21 AM
Don't you fellows think you exaggerate a bit? I mean all that Workshop stuff sounds more and mor like micromanagement.

I don't have a problem with micromanagement but there should be at least an option to turn that Workshop thing off, I think.

And won't you all agree that it would become boring to design the units by oneself after a short time?

1st shadowstrike. The SMAC "autodesign" method sucked big time. It made units you'd never use, and cluttered up the entire workshop.

That said I'm in favor of a workshop. But it needs 3 things IMHO:

1) To implement the changes I asked for in my LASS combat system;

2) To get rid of all units. The obsolete colony pods, crawlers, probe teams, etc. irked me to no end.

3) Allow people who don't like the workshop idea to be able to custom design units before game start, in a .txt file or something. Then When they play the set unit becomes available to build when the appropriate tech is researched. This could be used with or without the workshop in the same game.

**Shadowstrike** · August 4, 2000, 08:41

A enhanced model of the Workshop would probably be able to churn out better unit designs. I'll admit the auto-workshop is a thorn in SMAC's side, and that I didn't use it much (other then my first game). Hovever, in Civilization II you have somewhere between 3 - 5 different units, i.e. ship, calvary, artillary, land, and sometimes a extra. At any time, a player only needs that many units plus settlers, diplomats, etc. A good unit generator should be able to generate that many units, no more, no less. If you wanted something more specific, you'd really have to do it yourself.

Announcement

A Civ III Unit Workshop Model

A Civ III Unit Workshop Model

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment