Missile Defence Shield

[UltraSonix]

Hehe, with the [bad] international press (don't know about what it's like inside the US) on the proposed US missile defence shield, I just wanted to bring it up.

Maybe the SDI improvement of Civ2 can be changed to a wonder (I know this has been discussed before), and would be called the "missile defence shield". It would protect against nukes AND missiles equally, and cover all the builder's allies, but cause everyone else to be very suspicious of the builder. Building it would give others a justifiable reason to declare war. It would also take tremendous resources, and would need to be built in parts like the Alpha Centauri space ship in Civ2. It will NOT be 100% effective (and will only activate when a missile is attempting to actually attack) and would not work against aircraft/nuked equipped bombers.

The original SDI idea would also be kept, however. It would be for those that don't/can't build the missile-shield, they can still build a missile defence at each base. This local missile defence would have a better(worst?) chance of succeding than the missile-shield. The US is also building something like this right now, called the "theatre defence program" and it is working quite well.

The final related idea is that there would be a tile improvement that could be built which would act the same as the "theatre defence program". Just like the sensor improvement in SMAC, it more or less protects nearby units from missile and nukes. It could or could not be cumulative with the AEGIS x2 defence vs air.

I guess the main point is that the missile shield would have diplomatic repurcussions if built.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited July 23, 2000).]

[tonic]

I can vaguely recall a modpack for Civ II in one of the Civ2 websites where such a concept was implemented - as an Improvement, not a Wonder. I downloaded it years ago and seem to have deleted it from by HD. The graphic looked like a transparent hemisphere covering your city. Perhaps others may be able to point to the site, if it still exists?

[UltraSonix]

For the missile-shield idea (not the "theatre defence idea"), I was thinking more of a big, expensive wonder that would have diplomatic consequences if built. It probably wouldn't even be visible on the map. Perhaps building it could even incur an automatic reputation hit.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited July 23, 2000).]

[tonic]

I am not up with all the suggestions in this forum but what you say about the reputation hit would also be an ideal solution to the nuke-happy civs currently plaguing civ2. With resonances to the present state of nuclear detent, it would mean international pariahship to the civ that builds the Manhattan Project say.

[Christantine The Great]

I have never been a supporter of the SDI Defence improvement and I still think that any defence screen is bad. In Civ II a civ might enjoy the pinnicle of their civ as a nuke power for possibly 10 turns until somebody gets The Laser and then you are right back to pre-WWII warfare in the terms of fighting with guns and planes. I am not a fan of the nuke but I think a country should fear a larger one with nukes instead of laughing under their SDI umbrella.

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"Adorare Christantine!!!"
Republican Decree #1

[phunny pharmer]

Knowledge of the missile program inside the US - ignorance!

Hey, all I know is that everybody is complaining about the US missile defense shield, that this shield failed several crucial tests, that US taxes are going to go up to pay for it, and that the US is taking a diplomatic hit. Everybody loves the Pentagon, right?

Why put things in Civ3 that don't work in real life? (except...well...I need that SDI defense....)

That said, UltraSonix, the idea sounds interesting.

[agent4043]

I agree with Christantine. The threat of Nuclear war is apparent only in quotes of the diplomacy screen. No real fear of retaliation. Over time, nuclear missles should increase to such a size that all nations should fear them and SDI defenses should be such an impracticability that all major nations cease direct war with each other. It is only after a significant period of time when the weaker nations acquire nukes that the missle defense system becomes a reality.

That leads me to the second problem with the system. The nukes are not nearly powerful enough. Especially later in the game. They should be able to circle the globe and on impact, totally destroy a city regardless of size making the area unlivable for some time.

I'll quit before I start rambling about what I think the nuke system should look like. Back to topic, I think the missle defense system should come along very late in the game (as its still in real world future) and it should be limited, increasing in effectiveness with future techs.

[UltraSonix]

Heh, just 'cause the ol' US can't do a shield in real life, who says my mighty civ can't, eh?

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

[Par4]

Theatre defense system- Requires bases to be built, either in cities or in the country. Radar station
Anti missile launch base
Command station
Each would be quite expensive and having more than one would increase the chance of downing a missile.

City defense base- Same as normal, it's a laser with a small range maybe 4-6 squares.

Space Defense Initiative. The is going to be an initiative. You can select to protect yourself, youself and protectorates, yourself and allies, everyone whatever many many choices. Each choice would cost more over the original and require more satelites or command bases etc.

This would be very very expensive and require many things but it is 99% effective on downing all missiles.

Command station- This goes so does the whole system but you can have 2 or 3 of them.
Radar station-Ground base radar, kill all of these the systems effectiveness is halved.

New improvements
Space vehicle factory, can be government owned or a commercial company can own one.
Space vehicle launch pad-Government owned, very expensive very easy to kill
Command station)
radar station) These 2 can be in a city as an improvement or can be in a military base

Satelites
Radar satelite Need 8 of these can go to 16
Laser satelite Need 16 of these can go up to 32

Satelites would need to be replaced every say 20 years so you could destroy all the civs production facilities or launch pads and the system wouldn't work. The system would also be immensely expensive to build and maintain, almost prohibitively so. So cutting that civ's money supply could down the system too.

Also I want military bases you normally don't have the radar stations and command bases in a big city.

A wonder is too easy to defend I want this thing to require a superpower to maintain and strain that superpower.

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King Par4!!

There is no spoon
-The Matrix
Let's kick it up a notch!!
-Emeril Lagasse
Fresh Soy makes Tofu so silky
-Ming Tsai

[Adm.Naismith]

The idea of an SDI built by single parts from lot of cities (as Civ II spaceship to Alpha Centauri) is quite as reproduced by SMAC pod satellite system.

The sad part is that I never saw SMAC AI factions built or use that advanced feature.
Maybe I simply didn't play enough games, but I hope that if Firaxis will put this feature in CIV III, it will instruct the AI to make a better use of it.

About some of the complex nuclear model suggested here, I like to underline once again: please keep it simple, because nuclear weapons most relevant aspect are its dissuasive role and its diplomatic effect, not how powerful they are on battle fields.

More or less, simply dividing mass destruction weapons in tactical and strategical (different area of action), for the three known type: Nuclear, Bacteriological, Chemical (may be the latter not strategical) let us five or six different combo to menace every enemy.

Add these warheads to some kind of vectors (long and short range missiles, bombers, special troops as spies/terrorist) and you will end with a flood of possibility.

I'll prefer to let tactical warhead planted in cities by some spy/special mission screen, because I don't like to mess with spy unit movement, but that's another thread

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[Par4]

Hmmm

Bioweapons ooohh

My crappy system change it to

Build satelites
Build launch pad
Build command base
There EZ PZ

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King Par4!!

There is no spoon
-The Matrix
Let's kick it up a notch!!
-Emeril Lagasse
Fresh Soy makes Tofu so silky
-Ming Tsai
[This message has been edited by Par4 (edited July 24, 2000).]