Global Warming. It would be nice if...

[Sleestax]

It would be nice if Global Warming could be offset by the addition of forests in the game. I have a civ in my current game that has a lot of squares between cities with access to water. I sent a worker to forest all of the non-productive squares in my sphere of influence when my civ was just entering the industrial era, but that was before I found out that it was pointless.

If Firaxis is going to put in the scientifically questionable concept of human induced global warming, then they should also allow for off-setting it with the increasing of CO2 consuming forests.

Just my .02. What's your opinion on this? Do you like the current method for Global Warming?

[itsagreenday]

If that would be done, then the initial state of the world, prior to deforestation, should be considered. Think about how much forest and jungle you (and the AI) cut down, especially into the late industrial/modern age, because plains and grassland, railroaded and either mined or irrigated, produce more than the forest. I doubt someone would reforest more than has already been taken away.

[YC4B4U]

Global warming isn't a very well developed concept in Civ 3. Where are the diplomatic channels to reduce pollution?

With respect to forestation to reduce Global Warming - I think you are going to need alot of trees...

[hzm]

SMAC had this but trees didn't have as much effect as they should have. Anyway, you should also have to keep around a certain amount of jungle squares or (something).

[Sovereign]

I agree. Global warming should be more defined, with methods to curb it.

Also, Civ3 needs terraforming, like Civ2. I've had games where there were contients with mountain ranges 7 or 8 tiles wide! No cities or nothing.

It'd be like this.


| = coast
^ = mountain
- = hill


|-^^^^^^---|||
||^^^^^^--|||
||--^^^^^^---|||
||||^^^^^^^^|||


you get the idea?

I'll post a screenshot when I get another map with screwy mountain-contients.

[Fighter]

Global Warming isnt a "shaky concept" Its a fact. The only people saying otherwise are the people trying to justify why the US backed out of Kyoto.

[metalhead]

Global warming a fact? You whackos really need to get a scientific understanding of the situation. Global warming may or may not be happening - the fact is, we don't know. It could be happening now - or, it may never happen. But I'll say this - volcanic eruptions put into the atmosphere, in one event, more "greenhouse gases" than the entire human race has put in by burning fossil fuels. Humans have raised the greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere by less than 2%. Nature produces more than 50 times the amount of greenhouse gases than humans.

As for the Kyoto treaty, the US is NOT denying global warming as the reason for backing out. They backed out because it is completely unfair to the US. The US' productivity would be restricted far more than any other country in the treaty, and given the state of our economy that is NOT what is good for the American people.

I think that including global warming in this game is stupid. If they wanted to include environmental impact from pollution, they should have instead included more factual methods, such as poisoned groundwater causing population loss, ongoing pollution problems leading to completely unusable tiles for 20 or 50 turns, things of that nature. Getting a player to pay attention to pollution is a good idea - but calling it global warming is an insult to anyone with a fair-thinking brain. Also, the way it is implemented is stupid - I never have enough pollution to change more than a few tiles change. It has never been enough to cause me to worry about pollution.

[Demerzel]

the USA contains ~3% of the world population and causes ~25% of the world pollution iirc. maybe you guys need to cut back more than everyone else, you ever think that's why your "productivity" would be restricted?

all the other countries in the kyoto agreement have agreed to take steps to cut back emissions regardless of the financial cost to themselves. only the americans have decided to take the stupid short-term view and put themselves ahead of the environment. gfg America.

and americans wonder why they ( & their stupid president ) aren't exactly popular with the rest of the world atm.... things like trying to get out of the ICC too doesn't exactly help either but that's another matter.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by itsagreenday
I doubt someone would reforest more than has already been taken away.

Nay, nay!



** SPOILER ** GOTM10 **
Mon Cher Napoléon

http://www.zachriel.com/gotm10/ad1580-GreatForests.htm

[The Templar]

Hey Metalhead, that volcanos thing is due to Rush Limbaugh. Who if I remember correctly holds no degrees in environmental science, chemistry, materials science, geology, or environmental engineering. Rush is a flack for the Republican party (he's not even conservative when conservatism runs counter to Republican interests). Quit listening to that guy. Global warming is real. Check out the melting of the ice shelves in Anarctica or the melting of the permafrost in Alaska.

After all, if the east and west coasts are destroyed by flooding, that will only leave the conservative yahoos in fly over country. And without the costal "liberal intelligensia" to show tham which end of their boots to pour the piss out of, they'll be signing their own death warrants as well.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Demerzel
the USA contains ~3% of the world population and causes ~25% of the world pollution iirc. maybe you guys need to cut back more than everyone else, you ever think that's why your "productivity" would be restricted?

all the other countries in the kyoto agreement have agreed to take steps to cut back emissions regardless of the financial cost to themselves. only the americans have decided to take the stupid short-term view and put themselves ahead of the environment. gfg America.

and americans wonder why they ( & their stupid president ) aren't exactly popular with the rest of the world atm.... things like trying to get out of the ICC too doesn't exactly help either but that's another matter.

it's because Bush wants to help the oil companies, I'm sick of those republicans sticking their head in the sand.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by metalhead
Global warming a fact? . . . . It has never been enough to cause me to worry about pollution.

There is little scientific doubt as to whether global warming is occuring. It is. The only uncertainty is the role that modern humans have in climate change. As humans with their cattle represent the largest biomass on land, and as the content of the atmosphere has been significantly changed, most scientists believe there is a solid connection. As far as worrying about pollution; of course not. Living in the U.S. you are protected by strong anti-pollution laws.

Here is a link to the NOAA:

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

On topic: As a game element in Civ3, global warming adds a bit of realism and a reasonable balance to unlimited growth.

[WarpStorm]

Why is Antarctica cooler that it was in 1986? Why does satellite imagery show that the Antarctic icecaps growing?

http://greennature.com/article826.html

[Wormwood]

Originally posted by Demerzel
the USA contains ~3% of the world population and causes ~25% of the world pollution iirc. maybe you guys need to cut back more than everyone else, you ever think that's why your "productivity" would be restricted?

all the other countries in the kyoto agreement have agreed to take steps to cut back emissions regardless of the financial cost to themselves. only the americans have decided to take the stupid short-term view and put themselves ahead of the environment. gfg America.

and americans wonder why they ( & their stupid president ) aren't exactly popular with the rest of the world atm.... things like trying to get out of the ICC too doesn't exactly help either but that's another matter.

You know, it is things like those points that made me use the UN flag instead of the US. God forbid anyone should think beyond the imaginary lines on a map.

[Tiberius]

Off topic:

I don't know if global warming is scientificaly proved or not, and personally I don't even care. What I do know (from my personal experience) is that, in the area where I live, the climate is increasingly fvcked up and the weather is becoming more and more extreme. I suppose this is not the right thread to discuss this in detail, but believe me, pollution is not good, is not good at all. We (humans) should do something about it, until it is not too late...

On topic:

Some diplomatic agreements to reduce pollution would be nice (I mean, in civ3)