Cost of spying

[Tiberius]

Re: Re: Cost of spying

Originally posted by vulture
One argument in favour of stealing rather than buying is that if you buy the tech, Greece gets 2900 gold, while if you steal it they get nothing. Denying your main opponent 2900 gold (which will let him run at a higher science rate for a few turns, or let him rush buy a quite a few universities that he hasn't finished yet) is always a good thing.

That's a valid point. I haven't think of that; I was only thinking from my point of view, namely spending the same amount of money.
There is though one negative impact, too: stealing worsens the relations with your opponents while trading a tech improves them. Well, this is not really countable in terms of gold, so probably depends on the "battlefield situation".
Anyway, the fact that so few people uses the spying system (including stealing) from Civ3 tells a lot about the quality of it.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by Blake
Prehaps they'll just remove everything except the investigate city because thats pretty much all people use espionage for. It'd streamline the process.

LOL. You've hit the nail right on the head, Blake.

[FrantzX]

The only problem about spyingin Civ III is that it is too damn exspensive. Cut all the prices at least by half to make it viable.

[metalhead]

Using espionage relies upon you planting a spy - something that I seem to have a VERY hard time doing. I almost always seem to get caught trying to plant a spy. It's tantamount to flushing 200 gold down the toilet given my rate of success. The only thing I can see it being useful for is that an annoyed AI Civ will often times declare war if they catch you trying to plant a spy. Does anyone know if being a Commy increases your chances of successfully planting a spy? Will it also reduce the cost? Given the utter uselessness of the current espionage options, I have taken no time to explore anything about it. Any help, or direction to a FAQ/strategy thread on the subject would be appreciated!

I will say that spies in Civ2 were pretty unbalancing. A team of spies and a fairly large treasury were enough to cripple an AI Civ - I think that Firaxis tried to tone down the impact of espionage a bit, but hit WAY off the mark by making it all but useless. I really hope they bring back spying in a more balanced way in PtW, as playing dirty tricks on the enemy is always good for a few (evil) laughs

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by metalhead
Using espionage relies upon you planting a spy - something that I seem to have a VERY hard time doing. I almost always seem to get caught trying to plant a spy. It's tantamount to flushing 200 gold down the toilet given my rate of success. The only thing I can see it being useful for is that an annoyed AI Civ will often times declare war if they catch you trying to plant a spy. Does anyone know if being a Commy increases your chances of successfully planting a spy? Will it also reduce the cost? ...

Planting a spy is worth trying. I have even failed once and then succeeded on my 2nd attempt in the same turn!

Communist governments have enhanced probabilities of success with spy missions and plantings (my personal perception).

Regarding planting spies, sometimes when I am about to quit for the evening I will save the game, THEN try the plant or spy mission and save again only if successful. (Yes, definitely cheating. The other cheat I do is investigate cities after I save the game).

[Zero-Tau]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Communist governments have enhanced probabilities of success with spy missions and plantings (my personal perception).

Not your personal perception. It says right in the 'pedia that Communism improves the succes chance of espionage actions.

[player1]

I lowered steal tech mission cost to 70% (having cost of 50% was to much, already playtested that).

And have also havled cost of propaganda mission.

All other cost are OK.

[metalhead]

I know it says increased chance of success on espionage missions in the 'pedia, and i think the fire log that came with the game (or was that supposed to be a manual?), but I'm not sure if that includes the actual planting of the spy.

As far as planting goes, I have tried 10 times in a row before to plant a spy in an enemy civ on the same turn, and been caught every time. I have tried to plant a spy in every other enemy civ (5 or 6) and been unsuccessful on every one. I could deal with a 1 in 2 or even 1 in 3 chance of success in spy planting, but when you try over 30 times in 1 game to plant a spy, only to end up 5000 gold poorer and with all other civs annoyed (and, in one case, at war) with you, it tends to sour you on the whole espionage thing.

Completely OT - will PtW include an UPDATED, USEFUL manual, or just documentation of additions/changes/MP options?

[player1]

A tip:
If you fail once in esp. mission in that turn, all other attampts will be automatic failures.

After failure you should wait several turns, and then try again.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by player1
A tip:
If you fail once in esp. mission in that turn, all other attampts will be automatic failures.

After failure you should wait several turns, and then try again.

I disagree, from personal experience.

Planting a spy is worth trying. I have even failed once and then succeeded on my 2nd attempt in the same turn!

It's all a matter of that randomizer thingy. It CAN seem like it's a vinyl turntable with "the record's stuck, the record's stuck, ...".

[Arrian]

Player1 is correct, if you fail once, you will fail repeatedly if you try again that turn. Wait a turn and try again.

Planting a spy is worthwhile because you get to see the AI's entire order of battle. I like knowing exactly how many enemy infantry, tanks, etc. I'm going up against.

Steal plans, steal tech, and propoganda mission are each wastes of money, IMO. I can see a situation where I might consider trying to steal tech (late-game, high difficulty level... desperately trying to beat the AI to SS launch).

-Arrian

[Catt]

I have succeeded in espionage missions and/or planting spies even though I had previously failed in the same turn .

But I can't recall succeeding in the same mission against the same target -- I have failed to plant a spy among the Chinese but then succeeded in planting a spy among the French on the same turn; I can't recall failing to plant a spy among the Chinese, and then trying again and succeeding with the Chinese on the same turn.

Catt

[Tiberius]

I found this on civfanatics.com :

Civilizations with lower Culture values are more easily oppressed in diplomacy.

Interesting. I didn't know that.
I wonder what does this mean exactly (for civs with high culture): lower cost or higher chances for succeding in espionage missions?; or maybe just better results in diplomatic/trade negotiations?

[player1]

Originally posted by Jaybe

I disagree, from personal experience.

I disagree with YOU, from my OWN personal experience.

[player1]

Originally posted by Arrian
Steal plans, steal tech, and propoganda mission are each wastes of money, IMO. I can see a situation where I might consider trying to steal tech (late-game, high difficulty level... desperately trying to beat the AI to SS launch).

-Arrian

Steal plans is no waste at all.

At least at smaller maps, and when your oponent is not 30+ cities civ (in other cases it IS too much expensive).

Then getting enemy plans would be serous boost to your strategy planning.



Another thing.

Steal tech starts to become usefull in modern age when tech. become ridiculusly expensive to buy.

But it only pays off in just one or (or maybe 2) civs have same tech.
In other cases, buying price will be lowered, and steal tech priuce would stay same, so it would not pay off.

And, as far as I have played.
My all "safe" steal tech attempts were always succesfull.