When to build the Forbidden Palace with your first GREAt LEader?

[Catt]

Originally posted by Artifex
Would building a forbidden palace right next to your Capital be an option in this situation?

1. There are equal hills , on a river, and grassland, and IRON. PERFECT mix of land for a capital and possibly Ironworks in the future.
2. City has a PERFECT ring of cities around it. great for corruption. Situated nicely.
Downside--- But 3 squares over from your palace city. I am thikingn way too close, but I coudl get the FP up and runnign quickly..say 10 turns or so.

Then again i won;t really derive much benifits of the fp since it is right nexct to my palace...so I am thinking maybe building it further away but there will be NO IRON...so no iron works will be in the city.

Then again I am wondering if this is a little too close to build a FP. The only reason I am considering it is because it has Iron. hills, and shielded grassland and is set up to be a super production city in the future..and perfect for capital...although it is right next to my capital any way...so wont have much corruption.

It's a tough question to answer because so many variables should factor into the decision-making process. Assuming that you have discovered a good chunk of the map (or at least your own continent) and the location really is a good site for a palace, your situation sounds like a great candidate for the FP build. I always look for both a centrally-located city, a good terrain mix (for shields, gold and enough food to support larger cities in the late game), and then also keep an eye out for "bonuses" like the possibility of getting lucky and having the opportunity for an IW nearby.

The key thing to remember is that once built, the FP will (likely) never move -- as long as you've got a solid "core" made or in the making, I'd say it makes an excellent location for an FP with the expectation that your Palace will move sometime thereafter.

BTW- another advantage of keeping the FP at home and moving the Palace to newly conquered areas is the influence of the Palace on culture flipping -- a capitol will not flip (or so I am led to believe) - building a Palace in a captured enemy capitol which contains a few prized wonders will ensure the loyalty of that city; in addition, the closeness of the Palace will reduce the chances of nearby cities (which probably contain a lot of foreign citizens ) flipping away from you (back to the enemy) and increase the chances of nearby enemy cities flipping to you. A city can flip with the FP built there (rare - but it happens - see alexman's thread in the Strategy Forum).

Catt

[Artifex]

When you talk about a centrally located palace. Do you mean in the middle of the continent? Or central in the fact that it is surrounded by cities.

After wiping out Russia, I am wondering what choice to make in my current situation. Zululand has the middle of the continent. But persia is on the other side and more powerful,. I want to try and take Persia out because they are the bigger threat. But if I take out the zulu I will capture the middle part of the continent thus clearing way for my forbidden palace in the middle. I am leaning to declaring on persia in the next turn or two. But I just got another great leader and have yet to build my forbidden palace, this has complicated the situation..now hmm maybe the zulu. I used my other gls on sistine chapel and built cathedrals in my city during the goldne age..gotta love it when it hits at such a sweet time.

If i don't use the gl on FP then I guess i could get invention and use it on Leo's.


I tend to go after the most threatening nation to cut down to size..I check the powergraph frequently. This helps me make decisions on my next war.

Do you favor putting the forbidden palace in the middle of the continent. Then relocating the palace to another one?

Oh well I know this is kinda tough not knowing my exact map layout and game situation. I need to learn how to post maps here.

[Catt]

I mean central in the sense that it is surrounded by cities that enjoy decent terrain.

I've attached an enlarged minimap below from my most recent game (minimap is taken from an earlier post, so it shows "my" territory as still being controlled by someone else ) - in it I highlight the location of my FP (built manually), and the four different palace locations I had during the game (including the original start position). This game was played on a small map, on emperor, which means the OCN is 9 - the 10th city starts suffereing from OCN corruption (all suffer from distance corruption). The small OCN of 9 is of course modified on a city-by-city basis, depending upon a number of factors such as the presence of a courthouse, police station, etc.

This game (and map) was by no means the most effective example of the palace relocation strategy, but it will probably do to amplify my point.

Locating a palace in a corruption zone for a long enough period of time to get solid infrastructure in place is all that is needed. I consider solid infrastructure in the industrial age to mean: courthouse, marketplace, factory, temple, police station. Cathedrals and banks are next in line, harbors if a coastal city. The Palace Relocation strategy is valuable primarily after Industrialization: not much other use for leaders that are generated, and the combination of factories and RRs mean great shield production once the corruption is tamed. The fact that all the desired buildings are available (i.e., enabling tech discovered) is obviously important as well.

A couple of points on the map below. I expect each palace relocation to allow full infrastructure development in 4 - 5 cities (represented by the "rings of influence"), with several key enablers like factories, courthouses, police stations in several others. I expect that, once I relocate the palace again, the "infrasturcture complete" cities will again suffer from significant corruption, but that the effect of the improvements will make the corruption levels seem more manageable. As a specific example, both the "Palace #2 city" and the city to its southeast (farther away and so not benefiting from the Palace #3 city or FP after the palace move) continued to generate substantial commerce and shileds after the Palace was moved away from that area of the continent (although the lack of hills and mountains crimped shield production in this area). Doing this from memory, but if I had to guess, I'd say that shield production went from 60 - 70 shields down to 30 - 40 shields - a pretty big hit but then again, how many times do you expect net shield production of 30 shields from a predominantly grasslands / plains city well outside the base OCN from the Palace or FP. The multiple palace relocations depicted here gave me +/- 30 productive cities on a small map - a really powerful powerful boost in a game in which I had a challenge on my hands even into the earl modern era.

Catt

[Artifex]

In my current game the designated FP city has a good mix of hills, some wine resources, 2 mountians, and an iron resource. So in the future there is a possibility of an Ironworks. it is right next to my first core group with palace, so build time is about 20 turns for the FP.

I am just wondering how much I should build up my core group of cities around my Palace before moving the palace for the first time with my next GL.

I built courthouses in all of them, libraries, harbors, marketplaces, cathedrals, temples. But I don't have the tech yet for police stations yet. I am right in the middle of the medieval period. (education).

I wonder if my capital and surrounding core need universities and police stations before the first palace move. I'm japan so universities are not cheap.