World Map Question...

[cdinkle]

I have quite a few games under my belt, and something I noticed a little bit ago has seemed to me more and more likely to be true.
Will the AI declare war on you if they don't have your world or territory map? Because every time I play I never give anyone my map, and I usually declare war first, and if I don't declare war first, they won't attack me. Is this just luck, or is the AI triggered to only declare war if they have your map?

[Thrawn05]

In the early game, world maps are valuable, but usualy not the reason for war.

I think it's because you are either weaker or the civs in question are aggresive (germany).

[Fighter]

Also because the computer tends to like you more if you cooperate. With any dealings with the AI, you giveing a little will go a long way.

[TacticalGrace]

given the claims that the AI cheats and knows the whole map anyway, it would seem like a good deal to sell it maps even for 1 gold...

[Grumbold]

If you are an aggressive player you normally have enough units to intimidate your neighbours into staying peaceful, map or no map. I usually only get invaded if I let my military lapse in an effort to build city improvements and ignore diplomacy to keep my neighbours content.

[Galvatron]

Well I never give the AI anything and therefore they declare war (but only if they are stronger than you otherwise they just bluff) this I've learned here in this forum. But do maps have such a high importance to declare war? I doubt it very much.

[Egyptian]

Cdinkle:

IMO you are correct. It seems that other civs often want to have my map before they declare war. More than once I've traded territory maps with another civ, only to have them declare war on me one or two turns later. That's not to say they wouldn't declare war anyway, but it seems they do more often after getting my map.

[Arrian]

I just finished a game in which I never traded my maps. Ever. Only one AI ever sent a ship around my continent... a Greek caravel, and I don't think it made a full circuit.

But people attacked me. I put down one city on their continent, and immediately, two different civs sent stacks of troops straight for it. BAM! World War. Which was fine by me.

-Arrian

[Hagbart]

Don't give them your map, they'll use it to settle on "your" land.

[Hagbart]

The more you trade with the civs and give them what they demand, the less chance is that they'll attack you.

[cdinkle]

Originally posted by Egyptian
Cdinkle:

IMO you are correct. It seems that other civs often want to have my map before they declare war. More than once I've traded territory maps with another civ, only to have them declare war on me one or two turns later. That's not to say they wouldn't declare war anyway, but it seems they do more often after getting my map.

Feels good to be correct.

[trickey]

I try not to ever giva my world map away, Once you do, then the AI will send settlers tramaling through your ground

[JohnM2433]

Well, if the AI hasn't even found your empire, it wouldn't make sense for it to declare war on you, because it wouldn't know where to go to attack you. Although they presumably know where your capitol is if you establish an embassy with them or vice versa, just as you then know where theirs is.

Even if they do know where some of your cities are, having full knowledge of an enemy nation's geography is extremely useful when going to war. So it would make sense for them to prefer war with civs whose territory map they already have.

I guess I haven't really considered the pure military value of maps before. But I don't think I'll be forgetting it in the future. Thanks!

[JohnM2433]

Originally posted by TacticalGrace
given the claims that the AI cheats and knows the whole map anyway, it would seem like a good deal to sell it maps even for 1 gold...

Why? Even if getting your map does nothing for the civ buying it, shouldn't you hold on to your map in the hopes of selling it for more in the future? AIs are often willing to pay quite a lot for maps, although they do seem to value their own more than mine, even if they are of similar size. And remember, once you sell your map to a civ, they can sell it to others, which means that you may not be able to sell it to other civs in the future, because they will already have it.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by JohnM2433
Why? Even if getting your map does nothing for the civ buying it, shouldn't you hold on to your map in the hopes of selling it for more in the future? AIs are often willing to pay quite a lot for maps, although they do seem to value their own more than mine, even if they are of similar size. And remember, once you sell your map to a civ, they can sell it to others, which means that you may not be able to sell it to other civs in the future, because they will already have it.

When your map is large (i.e., there is more to offer), it is worth more. As it gets stale (i.e., when everyone already has the information), it is worth less.

Once you sell it to one, YOU have the opportunity to sell it to the others NOW, before others share it. Just as with tech trading, you may find that its value diminishes as its knowledge becomes less exclusive.