Tip to trade tech with AI

[Nym]

I do not know if it was already discussed, but I found a trick to trade tech with the AI.
I often had the following problem: I want to buy the AI a tech, but it do not want to trade it; when I ask it what I should give it for the tech, it answers that such a trade is not possible.
In fact the trade could be possible, but the cheat AI knows how many gpt you earn. It finds it is not enough and considers you can not buy the tech for what it wants. You can here notice that the AI will never propose you a trade that exceeds your income.
The solution is the following: set your science and luxury rates to 0%, in order to maximise your income. Contact the AI again and ask it for trading the tech; you must of course negotiate to minimize the amount of gold you will give it! Once you got the tech, try to trade it to other civs in order to be paid back; or, if you do not care about your reputation, declare war! Then you can increase your science and luxury rates at their initial level.

It does not work every time, but it was often successful for me.

[Cookie Monster]

Interesting theory

At what difficultly level did you try this?

[Thrawn05]

Just keep changing your offer and make it better until your advisor says they will accept this. I think Firaxis should change this.


Me:
Want: Radio
Give: 200 Gold

Them:
Want: 500 Gold, 50 gold/turn, World Map, Flight
Give: World Map

Me:
Want Radio
Give: 500 Gold, 100 gold/turn, World Map, Flight, Communism

Them:
Want: 500 Gold, 100 gold/turn, World Map, Flight, Communism
Give: World Map

Me:
Demand: Radio

Them:
sure!

Me:

2 turns later

Them: Prepare for WAR!

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich
Interesting theory

At what difficultly level did you try this?

Yeah, it works fine in all levels. I have been doing that since forever.

[Saint Marcus]

I've been doing this since my very first game Works everytime on all difficulties.

[Cookie Monster]

You learn something new everyday

I'll have to give this tactic a try. Thanks guys!

[Galvatron]

I was confronted with this problem all the time the bad AI didn't want to give me anything but now I have the power to trick them thanks to Nym. I will announce you for the creative-medal of the month.

[Nym]

Originally posted by Galvatron
I was confronted with this problem all the time the bad AI didn't want to give me anything but now I have the power to trick them thanks to Nym. I will announce you for the creative-medal of the month.

Thanks.

[JohnM2433]

I don't think the AI considers your or their treasury when considering gpt deals.

For example, they will be very happy to pay 20 gold, but will refuse to pay 1 gold/turn for the next 20 turns, no matter what you offer. Nor do they seem to consider that you or they could adjust spending to pay for a deal, as demonstrated here.

Yes, the way the AI handles gpt deals should definitely be fixed.

[Fitz]

John, what you describe is most likely due to the fact that you broke a gpt deal in the past, therefore they don't trust you for the future.

I had a game in which a deal of luxuries for gold (straight payment on my part) was broken by trade route destruction by the gold provider. I got the blame and none of the AIs would trade gold to me (even so much as 1) for luxuries for the rest of the game. still paid gpt though.

[player1]

Hmm, I always played that way.

Since you always know how big is AI treasury and how much he earns (he never agrees deals which exceeds his income), that same thing applies to you too.

[G.A]

Yup, if you declare war this way once, you`ll then probably never get tech for per-turn deal again in that game

So, I try to be honest in gpt deals. Instead, better keep your science at 0 all the time - it`s useless above Regent anyway

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by JohnM2433
I don't think the AI considers your or their treasury when considering gpt deals.

Yes, they do. Most of the time, they don't trade with you because they don't have enough golds or GPT.

For example, they will be very happy to pay 20 gold, but will refuse to pay 1 gold/turn for the next 20 turns, no matter what you offer.

There are many reasons why AI doesn't want to trade GPT (golds per turn) with you.

1. You reputation is bad.

2. It doesn't want a bad reputation. For example: If it agree 1 gold/turn for the next 20 turns, that means it couldn't go to war against you for the next 20 turns without taking a bad rep. If I am the AI, I wouldn't want to find myself in that situation either. Therefore, the AI has been responding brilliantly in this case.

[JohnM2433]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
2. It doesn't want a bad reputation. For example: If it agree 1 gold/turn for the next 20 turns, that means it couldn't go to war against you for the next 20 turns without taking a bad rep. If I am the AI, I wouldn't want to find myself in that situation either. Therefore, the AI has been responding brilliantly in this case.

A plausible explanation, but an incorrect one. A deal in which the AI pays x gold/turn will be acceptable, but a deal in which it pays x+1 gold/turn will be totally unacceptable. It will, however, be willing to give you x gold/turn and 20 gold up front for the same thing. The reason is that the AI won't pay gold/turn that exceeds its income in gold per turn. It's too stupid to realize that it could adjust the tax rates or take money out of its treasury, just as it doesn't realize that you could do the same. I'm sure many people here have witnessed the same sort of phenomenon -- back me up on this, guys.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by JohnM2433
A plausible explanation, but an incorrect one. A deal in which the AI pays x gold/turn will be acceptable, but a deal in which it pays x+1 gold/turn will be totally unacceptable. It will, however, be willing to give you x gold/turn and 20 gold up front for the same thing. The reason is that the AI won't pay gold/turn that exceeds its income in gold per turn. It's too stupid to realize that it could adjust the tax rates or take money out of its treasury, just as it doesn't realize that you could do the same. I'm sure many people here have witnessed the same sort of phenomenon -- back me up on this, guys.

I believe you are quite right, I think I have observed the same in my games. Restricting the AI to deals that do not cause negative cashflow seems to be rather simplistic. It is especially true when it will not accept such deals offered by the human - I mean, the AI should not bother whether you can or cannot fulfil your obligations with a non-negative cashflow. If you break the trade deal, you get a rep hit. If you honor it, well, fine... even if there is a routine checking whether a deal can (at least theoretically) be honored by the human, it should consider cash reserves, too...