Civ III Units Workshop

[Par4]

War needs to be leveled up, especially with all the trade and city improvements there will probably be. War is very important to human history IMHO and the abstraction is sad. Civ needs a more advanced military game, most of the world has large standing militaries or guerilla bands, or some form of military. The armies evolve over time and go through many eras of units from mass units to electronic advanced units, or very highly trained deadly units. I think Civs abstraction was bad and an insult to the military battles of history and the armies of today. Any Rome scenario would truely miss the heart and soul that was the Roman Empire, the highly trained, very advanced, often outnumbered Roman legions. The legion was a hand to hand unit in Civ. In civ3 I invision an army, under a commander, with siege weapons, archers, cavalry, supply lines, forts everything grand and admiralble, this is why I love gladiator, the opening sequence was accurate although on a small scale of what roman battles were and fast to what roman battles were, the weapons and tactics were realistic and as far as I know plus there is all that gore and killing. Anyone who loves a good war movie or movies with large bloody battles that accurately(to a degree) portray history probably wants civ to be more realistic on the war level.

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[Youngsun]

I have to agree with Par4 on this. If there is no significant change on this part(military),I wouldn't buy CIVIII. We all know there will be big improvements on other areas of the game so why not improve this part too?

[Youngsun]

Actually ancient China provides many good examples of mobilisation and demobilisation of population for both military and grand project purposes.(I bet both S. Kroeze & Urban Ranger know about this very well)

Ancient China also shows the pattern of distributing arms which had been stockfiled to conscripted levies. Provincial governors always kept larger quantity of weapons than the actual number of standing army so whenever an emergency happens large number of peasants could be armed instantly with stockfiled weapons(usually spears)and they were drawn into the service by either compulsory or voluntary enlisting.

quote: that armies could have a size large enough to concern a substantial part of the population, which is an argument to subtract these numbers from your population

This too well represented during Three kingdom period, Wu's lack of manpower resulting its eventual collapse and Wei's limitless manpower overpowering the other two kingdoms.

[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 23, 2000).]

[DarthVeda]

Well, It may not be an entirely bad idea if all the parts and pieces are customizable by scenario editors.

Say for instance you want to create an offensive soldier around 400 B.C.

Do you select an Iron Shield or a bronze to save money? Or no shield at all? extra armor to that would slow your men down.

What kind of weapon would they carry?

If it can be done well (ie not SMAC), then that would be nice.

[Youngsun]

Hello Darth Veda!

Weapons and equipments have to be produced then will be stockfied into your arsenal.


Stone axe +3 melee
Hunting spear +2 melee +1 support
Primitive bow +2 support

Bronze spear +4 melee +1 support
Bronze sword +5 melee
Bronze armour +1 armour -1 mobility
Iron spear +5 melee +1 support
Iron sword +6 melee
Iron armour +2 armour -1 mobility
Wooden shield +1 armour
Bronze shield +2 armour -1 mobility
Iron shield +3 armour -1 mobility
Composite bow +3 support
Horse armour +1 armour -1 mobility
Marius's mule allows a unit to fortify -1 mobility

Light Horse +6 mobility(no armour allowed)
Medium Horse +5 mobility(armoured men allowed)
War Horse +4 mobility(Horse armour allowed)
Chariot(arse) +2 mobility
Chariot(horse)+3 mobility
Elephant +2 mobility -2 enemy melee(only cavalty)


Long sword +7 melee
Pike +5 melee X2 melee vs mounted(only inf)
Lance +5 melee X2 melee vs mounted(only cav)
Plate armour +4 armour -2 mobility
Mace +5 melee ignores enemy armour 50% -1 mobility
Longbow +5 support ignores enemy armour 60%
Crossbow +4 support ignores enemy armour 80%
Stirrup +2 melee(only mounted)auto upgrade if discovered

If your culture/social system is primitive, then you can only mobilise primitive men

Primitive men has basic stats like this
Melee/support/armour/mobility
1/0/0/3

Melee:basic fighting power/close combat ability
Support:when accompanied with melee units add bonus to the melee units
Armour:absorb some of enemy hit including enemy support fire
Mobility: this is not map(strategic) mobility this is battlefield mobility.
1~4 Bf mobility equals 1 map mobility
4~8 Bf mobility equals 2 map mobility
8~12 Bf mobility equals 3 map mobility
Battlefield mobility affects actual battle as a combined arms effect and map mobility ,as you know, reflect how many square you can move.

Assume that you mobilised 5000 primitive men then you distribute those stockfied weapons like Lord of Realm II style.

1000 axemen
1000 axemen
1000 spearmen
1000 spearmen
1000 Bowmen

your enemy has 8000 spearmen then engage!

Your army is faithfully following the basic combined arms concept(heavy inf,skirmisher,archer)so recieves high bonus whereas the enemy has no bonus on this case but only numerical advantage.

any more suggestion on this?