Kamikaze!

[Fighter]

I think what no one has mentioned yet is the fact that the Japanese leadership had no illusions of being able to destroy the American fleet. The gamble with Kamikaze's was an attempt to make the Americans bleed, hopefuly making them take a step back because of all the blood.

The first actual kamikaze attack occured at "The Turkey Shoot" also known as the battle of the Phillipines in 1944. Isnt it amazing that in the same battle that the Japanese navy ceased being an effective opposition to the American navy that they started using Kamikaze's? What a coincidence.

Also the underlying aspect of the Kamikaze in our society is funny, people find the idea of kamikaze attacks abhorent and yet when a hero in a movie makes the ultimate sacrifice, ramming speed and all, we find it heroic and great. Isnt that odd?

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Fighter
I think what no one has mentioned yet is the fact that the Japanese leadership had no illusions of being able to destroy the American fleet. The gamble with Kamikaze's was an attempt to make the Americans bleed, hopefuly making them take a step back because of all the blood.

Good point. The Japanese military command was trying to make the US forces bleed heavily in order to force them negotiate a peace treaty acceptable for Japan. The unconditional surrender was unimaginably humiliating for the Japanese and they would do just about anything to avoid it. It took the atomic bomb to change their opinion (and not entirely, it was largely a bold deed of Hirohito to take over the initiative and surrender - his generals/ministers were still hesitating).

Originally posted by Fighter
Also the underlying aspect of the Kamikaze in our society is funny, people find the idea of kamikaze attacks abhorent and yet when a hero in a movie makes the ultimate sacrifice, ramming speed and all, we find it heroic and great. Isnt that odd?

Not only that (even though this is a very good example). Thousands of soldiers of all nations were sent to missions that were either clearly suicidal or offered such a small chance of survival that it made no difference. I am no military expert, but I believe that generals simply have to make this kind of decisions. Soldiers die in wars, that is a matter of fact. Kamikaze were dying in a rather "spectacular" way, that's why it looks "worse" or "more inhumane", but I personally don't think it's very different...

Perhaps the reason is that - from our point of view - they were dying "because of the wrong thing". The Japanese are considered the WW2 bad guys (I do not question this view, my personal opinion is the same), so sacrifices in the name of their victory do not seem justified to us. It was necessarily different from the Japanese point of view, though.

BTW, is there anybody from Japan hanging around? I would love to hear opinions coming from there... All my sources are basically of Western origin and may be not very accurate as far as the feelings and attitudes of the Japanese people go.

[Fighter]

Your absolutely right there vondrack about why we think of kamikaze's as so bad. Our society feels the need to condone what our side does in war and villify what the other side does. Kamikaze's were desparate terror methods, however the idea of "bleed them till they quit" is used all the time throughout history. Sherman's march to the sea as a classic example, and its even American to boot!

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by vondrack
Kamikaze were dying in a rather "spectacular" way, that's why it looks "worse" or "more inhumane", but I personally don't think it's very different...

Wouldn't have looked worse... if it had worked.

And once again, we should avoid applying our standards of better and worse to other cultures.

Inhumane? That's in the eyes of the humans. Don't assume that your group of humans have sole domain in defining the term.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Wouldn't have looked worse... if it had worked.

Yep, that's very true.

Originally posted by notyoueither
And once again, we should avoid applying our standards of better and worse to other cultures.

Inhumane? That's in the eyes of the humans. Don't assume that your group of humans have sole domain in defining the term.

Exactly - that was why I put the terms inside quotation marks. What is good or bad and what is humane or not largely depends on who defines the term (and that is the winner, for the most of the time..)..

[Panag]

hi ,

it would be great as a Japanese second or third UU in a mod or scen , ...

have a nice day

[Grumbold]

Every nation has sent troops on suicide missions. Japan just had an honor code that explicitly made it a heroic thing to accept such a mission. The allies might have been slightly more squeamish about actually ordering their troops on missions where there was no chance of survival but gladly handed out bravery medals for any of their troops who undertook similar deeds, like charging machine gun nests or holding a bridge to allow other troops to retreat.