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**JohnM2433** · August 16, 2002, 18:02

Wow. That's a lot. I never resart.

I think that it would be more fair/balancing if every civ started out in highly productive terrain, by a river. It is in such regions that early civilizations actually arose, after all (right?).

**miccofl** · August 16, 2002, 18:38

Mostly I have to restart the game some 50 - 100 times before getting the circumstances I want and it may take several hours.

You should consider using the editor to make your map, then give each civ a pop 1 starting city at locations to your liking or manufacture. It would save you a lot of time in the long run.

**NeoStar** · August 16, 2002, 21:25

I only restart when on a tiny island in the middle of the ocean (on a big map) or when surrounded by tundra for miles and miles.

Some on this thread wouldn't restart for that even...

**JohnM2433** · August 16, 2002, 21:59

Originally posted by NeoStar
I only restart when on a tiny island in the middle of the ocean (on a big map) or when surrounded by tundra for miles and miles.

Funny, I always thought it would be interesting to start out on a small island!

You'd be forced to a builder strategy with just a few cities (or only one) and try to discover Map Making as soon as possible (and then other naval technologies, if you are indeed in the middle of the ocean). But I've never started like that, and I've never bothered to make a mod/senario.

In one Civ II game I played (or was it Civ I? It's been so long since I played either) the Russians started out on an island just off the coast, which I think was just one or two tiles. I could tell, because that was where their capitol was, and it wouldn't have made any sense for them to move it there. It had quite a large population, and probably lots of improvements as well. I wonder if the Russians knew to make a technological beeline for Map Making?

In one Civ III game, the European civs started out away from the main (super)continent, and thus were technologically underdeveloped, compared to the other civs. Most of them caught up fairly well through trading, but France, which was on an isolated and relatively small land mass of its own with only a medium island nearby to colonize, and which made contact with the main-continents civs far later than anybody else, was doomed to lag behind for the entire game. Not having a local source of iron and some other strategic resources, to say nothing of luxuries, didn't help them either.

So, starting on a small island, or even a large but isolated one, would probably make for a tough game. But some players might enjoy the challenge.

**Demerzel** · August 16, 2002, 22:02

several hours to get a game underway? ouch that's a bit anally retentive, pardon the expression if for some reason that goes against the strict anti-swearing rules.

I personally only restart if I'm stuck in the middle of a mountain/desert range that stretches as far as the eye can see or am stuck slapbang between a few civs and have absolutely no room to expand in.

**JohnM2433** · August 16, 2002, 22:32

Yes, most players would probably find it boring. Even I might get sick of it, and I'm the one who suggested it!

Still, I can't help thinking it would be interesting to try...

**Saurus** · August 17, 2002, 12:43

Originally posted by miccofl

You should consider using the editor to make your map, then give each civ a pop 1 starting city at locations to your liking or manufacture. It would save you a lot of time in the long run.

Yes, It would spare me some time, but I would HATE to know how the world looks prior to playing it

-S

**Saurus** · August 17, 2002, 12:48

Originally posted by Demerzel
several hours to get a game underway? ouch that's a bit anally retentive, pardon the expression if for some reason that goes against the strict anti-swearing rules.

I personally only restart if I'm stuck in the middle of a mountain/desert range that stretches as far as the eye can see or am stuck slapbang between a few civs and have absolutely no room to expand in.

Yes, but there are some posetive aspects of this "hours of restarting" strategy also. That is: When you finally get a game going, then you are really nailed to it since you KNOW that loosing out would cause a several hours
of restarting. That way the game becomse more real and important

-S

**C Chulainn** · August 18, 2002, 15:35

I restart if it becomes clear I'm on a little island (this seemed to happen about half the time in Civ2!) with no room to build enough cities, or if I'm stuck surrounded by jungle and/or desert leaving me unable to grab sufficient land.

**Thrawn05** · August 18, 2002, 16:49

If I can't make railroads, then I stop.

**JohnM2433** · August 18, 2002, 17:40

Originally posted by Demerzel
several hours to get a game underway? ouch that's a bit anally retentive, pardon the expression if for some reason that goes against the strict anti-swearing rules.

In my last post, I assumed this was in response to my first post about liking the idea of starting on a small island. But after reading Saurus' response, it seems more likely that this comment was aimed at him/her, which I would have realized in the first place if I had thought about it. Oops.

Could you clarify who you were responding to, just so that I can be sure about what you meant? That is, by "getting a game underway", were you just refering to building the first cities, or venturing out to explore the world at large?

**JohnM2433** · August 18, 2002, 17:51

Originally posted by Saurus
Yes, It would spare me some time, but I would HATE to know how the world looks prior to playing it

-S

Maybe someone else would be willing to design such a map for you? I'm sure that "balanced" maps will be popular when multiplayer comes out. On the other hand, some players will probably like a random start, so that they will have the chance to explore different possibilities. Your starting position could well effect your strategy for the entire game, especially in MP.

I would prefer something in between -- everyone's immediate surrounding are great at the start, but outside of that, things are more random. It seems that the easy way to do that would be to first generate the map, and then assign the best regions as starting locations. I think that civs are already more likely to begin in good terrain than bad -- has anyone else noticed that? And does it depend on difficulty level?

**Demerzel** · August 18, 2002, 19:41

Originally posted by JohnM2433

In my last post, I assumed this was in response to my first post about liking the idea of starting on a small island. But after reading Saurus' response, it seems more likely that this comment was aimed at him/her, which I would have realized in the first place if I had thought about it. Oops.

Could you clarify who you were responding to, just so that I can be sure about what you meant? That is, by "getting a game underway", were you just refering to building the first cities, or venturing out to explore the world at large?

heh I was referring to Saurus, "getting a game underway" was to mean starting up a map and being happy enough with it to play through to its eventual conclusion.

Got a great position t'other day with plenty of luxuries & other good things but unfortuantely the english were based nearby and thanks to the glory of AI bonuses on Emperor, overran me quickly with its 12 units & 4 cities in the time it took me to build 4 units & 2 cities

**Thrawn05** · August 18, 2002, 22:25

Originally posted by Demerzel
Got a great position t'other day with plenty of luxuries & other good things but unfortuantely the english were based nearby and thanks to the glory of AI bonuses on Emperor, overran me quickly with its 12 units & 4 cities in the time it took me to build 4 units & 2 cities

And I thought I had problems with Monarch.

I do play Deity once and a while just for kicks, and what you experence seems to sum up my games.

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