Ancient Age Attack/Defence ratios totaly unfair

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Artifex
The river gives no defense bonus. I checked the terrain in the civilopedia. Attacking across a river means nothing. Where does it say attacking across a river gives defender a bonus? Certainly not in the civilopedia.

ummm... check the editor. It lists the defense bonuses for rivers. The Civilopedia is just as bad as the manuel.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Artifex
The river gives no defense bonus. I checked the terrain in the civilopedia. Attacking across a river means nothing. Where does it say attacking across a river gives defender a bonus? Certainly not in the civilopedia.

It's mentioned in the manual.

[Artifex]

I checked the civilopedia..I lost my manual awhile back. The civilopedia is pretty lame to say rivers give no defene bonus.

So what is it 25%?

[Capt Dizle]

yeah

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Artifex
I checked the civilopedia..I lost my manual awhile back. The civilopedia is pretty lame to say rivers give no defene bonus.

So what is it 25%?

You can change it in the editor though, like I did. I knocked it up to 50% to make rivers more important combat-wise, so you have to watch where you fight.

[Harovan]

In the early game the AIs have no veteran spearmen. The have only regulars. When you attack with veteran archers, you have a 50% chance against a fortified reg spearman in a city on plain territory (no hills). You certainly had very bad luck, that happens rarely. A 5-6 stack of archers, protected with 1-2 spearmen takes a city almost for certain. Go for the enemy capital and take it. Leave a spearman as garrison, and try to raze or even take another city. Quickly sue for peace, and demand advances and 1-2 cities. You will for certain get all you demand. But do it early, the archer stack shall leave 1500BC at the latest (better around 2000BC).

2 simple rules:

- If the enemy capital is on a hill, take 2-3 archers more.

- Don't mess with the Greeks. Archers don't very well against hoplites, even regulars. If you see the Greeks early in the game, attack with an exploring warrior one of their hoplites. You will lose for certain, but you just have fired their GA. As they are still in REX mode, they will use the extra shields on settlers, and since a GA gives no extra food, it will be completely wasted, waiting for the settlers to be completed food-wise. Make peace ASAP and don't touch the Greeks again until you have knights. Note: Nothing is more annoying than a Greek GA in well developed cities. So make sure they have it earlier.

[Lord Merciless]

You used 6 archers to attack 2 fortified spearmen and 1 warrior. I would hardly consider your force sufficient. When on offensive, you need at least a 3 to 1 numerical superiority. In later games, it's hard for even 15 tanks to capture a size 13+ city defended by 5 infantries.

[Harovan]

Lord Merciless: We are talking about the very early game. That means:

- No city is above size 6.
- The AI has not more than 2 regular spearmen in the city.
- It will poprush an archer, if you approach, which will probably lose badly attacking one of your vet spearmen.
- The AI is focused on expansion and always willing to talk about peace, usually only 6-8 turns after the declaration of war. So even if you fail (which happens once in 20 cases), it won't reach your cities with counterattacks (except maybe 1 or 2 exploring warriors)

A 6 archer and 2 spearman force is in most cases enough to take 2 cities (or take one and raze one). That's the goal. Read: Oscillating wars.

[Ksim3000]

I thought Archers were mainly for Defence not Offence?

[Capt Dizle]

Ralph, you have your numbers right given the parameters.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Lord Merciless: We are talking about the very early game. That means:

- No city is above size 6.
- The AI has not more than 2 regular spearmen in the city.
- It will poprush an archer, if you approach, which will probably lose badly attacking one of your vet spearmen.
- The AI is focused on expansion and always willing to talk about peace, usually only 6-8 turns after the declaration of war. So even if you fail (which happens once in 20 cases), it won't reach your cities with counterattacks (except maybe 1 or 2 exploring warriors)

A 6 archer and 2 spearman force is in most cases enough to take 2 cities (or take one and raze one). That's the goal. Read: Oscillating wars.

Well, we don't know the settings of the thread starter. He might have faced 2 vet AI Spearmen, fortified in a city on top of a hill and across the river. That would mean the Spearmen have an effective defensive strength of 2+0.5(fortified)+1(hill)+0.5(river) = 4. Six Archers would not be enough to dislodge 2 of them.

The other explanation is simply a string of bad luck.

[Jon Shafer]

And that string can be mighty bad sometimes. Once I lost 18 (yes, 18) Archers in an assault on two AI cities with 2 regular spearmen each. That was the end of that game.

[Foolishman]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless


Well, we don't know the settings of the thread starter. He might have faced 2 vet AI Spearmen, fortified in a city on top of a hill and across the river. That would mean the Spearmen have an effective defensive strength of 2+0.5(fortified)+1(hill)+0.5(river) = 4. Six Archers would not be enough to dislodge 2 of them.

The other explanation is simply a string of bad luck.

Lord, the spearman were fortified on a Grassland and they were ona river, I better understand now the dynamics of defense bonus, but, that was simply too bad, and no, none of the spearman were veterans, only I was. Also, after that, I used the spearman to pillige their improvements, as last retribution for the destruction of my archers.

[Foolishman]

Also, lord, I am quite pleased you were as nice enough to post on my thread, I like many of your "war stratagies" and one day hope to become as good in battling civ Ais and eventually humans as you are currently. Your stratagies of extroting and taking cities is quite affective on higehr levels I hear, I must try it.

[Thrawn05]

This is why I stay away from anchient warfare and even middle age war as well at times. I guess I just don't have that warmonger blood in me. I usualy lose due to a lack of units.