Diplomats(who needs them)and Spies(what's up with these units)

[DanM]

First of all,why bother having the diplomat unit.I think that when you discover a foreign city,there should be a button under their name in the diplomacy screen that says "establish embassy"and after a given amount of turns and a small cost you've got it.I always hated it when I would send my diplomat across the continent in order to establish an embasy,only to have him expelled before he gets there.Let's replace him with an early spy-type unit.
And speaking of spies;what kind of a spy can be seen at all times?A lowsy one if you ask me.Spies should be an invisible unit which can only be seen by other spies,and maybe certain other units depending on government type.Something like the submarine unit was in CivII.This would bring more of a cloak-and-dagger element into the game and would make for some interesting confrontations.

[MidKnight Lament]

Regarding diplomats - I agree.
Regarding spies - Everybody probably already knows I'm pretty keen on an Espionage Screen, rather than units on the map.

- MKL

[OrangeSfwr]

Wow yeah. I never gave much thought to that spy thing. How inaccurate! I like the espionage screen idea. And I happen to agree about diplomats. They're useless. I wait 'till I get spies and to get Embassies I build UN and Marco wonders.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[MidKnight Lament]

I posted this on a CTP2-General thread about management screens.

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum35/HTML/000044.html#9

Basically, it's a very quick, loose summary of ideas I've had. Plenty of room for changes and suggestions though.

quote: Originally posted by MidKnight Lament on 05-02-2000 01:09 AM The basic idea is that all spy activity is managed from a separate Espionage Screen or overlay, rather than having spy units walking around the map. - You can move spies from enemy city to city in the hope that they will be able to glean some information for you. - The longer a spy has spent in a city, and the longer they've been working for you, the more effective they become. - Each turn there is a chance that they will be able to gain information for you. It may be unit positions, city info, parts of their map, or a new technology, depending on how good the spy is, and what contacts they've managed to get in the city. - Spies are funded using gold. The more you pay them, the more loyal they'll be. This will force the player to make decisions: Do I want three spies I can rely on, or ten that I may not be able to trust all the time? - Counter-espionage is possible by paying a foreign spy more money than your enemy so that they're actually working for you (without the foreign civs knowledge). It is also possible by planting misinformation for a foreign spy, thereby confusing your enemy. This idea is still very much in the works. I just haven't had much time to hammer it out yet. Most people seem to think it would be cool though, as long as it doesn't get too complicated. I think it would be much more fun that the current way of using spies though.

- MKL

[The diplomat]

I agree too.
My username might suggest that I like the diplomat unit but what I like is diplomacy and I am also a fervent believer that micro-management should be reduced to the bare minimum. Eliminating the diplomat and spy unit would not diminish diplomacy or espionage and would go a long way to making the game more manageable and therefore (IMHO) more fun!

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.
[This message has been edited by The diplomat (edited May 07, 2000).]

[DanM]

Something like a more detailed version of MOO2 I gather?
I guess I need to look more intensely through the other posts because I'd like to see your thoughts on this.