No more temples to build in modern ages !

[BeeBee]

In civ2, when founding/capturing a city in the last centuries, you still had to construct all the old buildings like temples and colosseums. How unrealistic! Something should be changed. (perhaps colosseums replaced by stadiums).

On the other hand cities with old buildings (built in the right time!) could perhaps benefit from their monuments by the tech tourism (when constructing a tourisme office e.g.).

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C'est dur etre bébé

[Jon Miller]

temples become churches (for western society)

collesiums become stadiums

and soo on

if they have the same effect why have diffreent names

Jon miller

[BeeBee]

Why? Just one word: realism.
That's what a civ game is about (at least for me).

I know there are also players who don't give a f*** about realism, but I am not one of them. Everyone his opinion...

[OrangeSfwr]

I think that there's a point to be made about some outdate improvements (temples, aqueduct, etc.) But how about making certain improvements obsolete during certain discoveries. The Aqueduct should become obsolete with the arrival of sewer systems and things like that.

But as far as religious ipmrovements, I feel that you should have to choose a religion (much the same as you choose a govt.) and it has advantages and disadvantages. (Example: Islam - free support for a fundamentalist unit.)

Than depending on what you choose, churches or temples become obsolete. But both should have the same effect on your city. Make sense? Any suggestions?

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[This message has been edited by OrangeSfwr (edited April 16, 2000).]

[BeeBee]

Makes sense

only,
the "choosing" a government or religion kind of disturbs me...
I mean changing a government or religion is not a thing that a nation suddenly decides to do between their soup and potatoes. This is something that grows and evolves slowly.
Don't know yet how to implement this in a game...

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C'est dur etre bébé

[MidKnight Lament]

There's a few OK religion models around. The one in EC3 would be a good place to start for anyone who hasn't seen it. Note that in that model a religious victory would be added.

- MKL

[Gord McLeod]

I think it should be pointed out that temples are by no means antiquated or outdated - they are still constructed on a regular basis in many areas of the world. Don't confuse a structure that doesn't exist often in North America with one that has died out worldwide. Heck, it's possible to find modern temples even today in North America. And aquaducts are still used as well, though usually in a more modern form.

[Atahualpa]

quote: The Aqueduct should become obsolete with the arrival of sewer system

you drink water from the sewer system?

ata

[Andz83]

Yes, I for myself made considerations about this topic. I even started to create whole tables where those buildings should be listed up in a certain row for the special era.
I'd say that we have to think about the eras and ages the game has to cover before we are talking about the cultural and civilian improvements. The eras/ages should be:
1. Ancient (Bronze Age, Iron Age, "Roman Empire-Age" etc.) 2500BC-400AD (Rome's Fall)

2. Mid Ages (Dark Ages, Feudal Ages, etc.) 400-1450 (Constantinople's Fall)

3. Pre-Industrial (Renaissance, 16th - 18th century) 1450 - 1815 (Napoleon Defeated)

4. Industrial/Imperialism Age (1815-1914)

5. Great Wars (1914-1945)

6. Modern Times (1945 until now)

7. Perhaps Future?

Surely, the years shouldn't be an important influence in the game; if a civ is faster than the others, it should be able to reach the certain ages before the others, but I just want to give an exemple...

I also think that the building types should depend on the civilization/culture/religion

Now, we can talk about the buildings for the certain ages.
Example:
1. Ancient: Temple, Marketplace

2. Mid-Ages: Church, Marketplace

3. Pre-Industrial: Church, Marketplace, but different from 2.)

4. Industrial: Church, Marke...
OK, I think from a certain point on, there won't be many changes anymore, except the Marketplace would become a Supermarket in the Modern times or something similar.

What I wanted to say is: a general discussion doesn't make very much sense, it would be more interesting and also efficient, if we started to get a little system into our considerations.

I hope this post will be replied, after my bad experiences in this forum ...

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"The more I know, the more do I know that I don't know anything" - forgotten who said that...
"Within the peace, enemy attacks us..." - Kaiser Wilhelm II, August 1914
"Hell, yeah!" - James Hetfiels, while singing "Master Of Puppets" on Metallica-S&M-concert in spring 1999 in San Francisco

[OrangeSfwr]

quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa on 04-17-2000 04:41 AM you drink water from the sewer system?

Lol! No I meant as far as city size improvements. But very funny! I needed a laugh...


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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[Adm.Naismith]

I remember some time ago about a thread where was pointed out how silly is developing a city later: it will be very difficult to catch earlier cities, because the development (and growing) model doesn't change during game timeline.

It has been suggested to let cities been founded (according to civ era/tech development) with some improvement already built from start (or same effect in place).

This way, we can try to keep up interest in founding new cities later, helping also building player that develop they cities slowly.

In fact, I would like a more enhanced model, as people immigration, villages developing into cities, and the like already appeared on The List 2.0.
Still, if I must been limited to a more conventional CIV approach, I would like some tweaking into city enhancement model, without force me into an endless "build queue" of improvement for newest town.

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Adm.Naismith AKA mcostant

[tniem]

quote: Originally posted by Andz83 on 04-17-2000 03:02 PM The eras/ages should be: 1. Ancient (Bronze Age, Iron Age, "Roman Empire-Age" etc.) 2500BC-400AD (Rome's Fall) 2. Mid Ages (Dark Ages, Feudal Ages, etc.) 400-1450 (Constantinople's Fall) 3. Pre-Industrial (Renaissance, 16th - 18th century) 1450 - 1815 (Napoleon Defeated) 4. Industrial/Imperialism Age (1815-1914) 5. Great Wars (1914-1945) 6. Modern Times (1945 until now) 7. Perhaps Future?

If we are going to have so many time periods from the middle ages on shouldn't Ancient time be altered. Even in your description you put three time periods together. At least, Roman/Greek should be seperated from early ancient time period. They had many differences in religion, government, and armies.

[Andz83]

In my overview there aren't many time periods for the middle ages! Only one: middle ages:
But you're right about the thing with the ancient times. But in the ancient times the differences between the particular eras weren't as large as the ones bewtween the middle eras or the modern eras, I think

[Gord McLeod]

quote: Originally posted by Andz83 on 04-20-2000 11:25 AM In my overview there aren't many time periods for the middle ages! Only one: middle ages: But you're right about the thing with the ancient times. But in the ancient times the differences between the particular eras weren't as large as the ones bewtween the middle eras or the modern eras, I think

There's no reason to think the differences were any larger or smaller than they are these days - we simply have less information and data available about the more ancient times, and so we have less of a basis to separate periods out into convenient groups. Humans have always been very good at diversity and radical change... it's not really a modern innovation.

[OrangeSfwr]

It IS pointless to try to develop a city later than about 1000 A.D. using the Civ 2 model because they're are just to many improvements to build and with such little resources (starting at a level 1) it's impossible. I propose that cities built by engineers start at level 5 (or as large as supportable) and come complete with certain outdated advancements (Marketplace, Library, Temple)

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~