Cold war and better alliances

[Otso Vuorio]

It's sometimes very unpleasant when you must declear a war when you want to punish a civilization you hate. Instead of always declearing war, there should be some kind of "Cold war mode" too. Cooperation between the civilizations wich support the same ideology (goverment) against the others would be great. For example Democratic civilizations against those who support Communism. Just like in the history of the world after the WWII.
There should be new options of how the civilizations can give military- and money support for each other. It would make the game more realistic and fun!

It's always very unpleasant when your best ally declears peace with your worst enemy leaving you fight alone. This is why there should be more realistic alliances wich contain a lot of options, not just some sort of temporary attacks together, but businnes and ideological "wars" against the enemies too.

[BeeBee]

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[This message has been edited by BeeBee (edited April 19, 2000).]

[BeeBee]

Right !!
There should be a way of being able to exert pressure on your allies so that they remain hostile against your enemies. I mean, when they make peace with your worst enemy, it should be kind of loyalty rupture. Certainly making alliances with your enemies should have consequences.
This way you and others might think twice who to make alliances with...

I haven't thought about this matter very deeply, perhaps there are serious drawbacks in this system...

Comment on this plz !

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C'est dur etre bébé

[BeeBee]

sorry for the double post !

[ivorgrubisic]

You mean triple?!

[BeeBee]

Why is no-one replying on this thread?
Didn't you hate it in civ2 when your ally made an alliance with your worst enemy and exchanged knowledge you just gave to him?

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C'est dur etre bébé

[WarVoid]

Cold Wars could be effectively through an advanced espionage and diplomacy screens. More options other than just poison water supply or destroy improvement. Like instigate revolution. Making a city become an independent civ. Kinda like in my civil wars post.

[Adm.Naismith]

Yes, diplomacy, espionage, also trade pacts, the whole concept of CIVilians, religions or culture joining or dividing people.

We already have something on the line of common "social agenda" and government attitude in SMAC, but they don't work very well IMHO, I laugh every time a leader call me to menace me, then end the chat with words of peace and love because we are "green" or "fundamentalist" like him/her

The main reason is stopping me to write reply to the forum these days (well, almost ) is that I'm tired to speculate about a game we have so small hints about the actual state od design.

If Firaxis really force itself publishing some main in/out list, we will know what to deeply examine and what to forget. Minor things as asking to us about "Save File name convention" are interesting but...

But it's a Secret Project, they don't want some one else gain knowledge about it (you know, that nasty "three share tech" ) and rush up a clone on the shop shelf.

So we are left alone, brainstorming every concepible game idea and some more, from "First Person Civers" to "Civ's fashion" and "Civ fighters IV"

Oh well, happy easter in advance (not sure I will be on-line for a few days).

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Adm.Naismith AKA mcostant

[Stefu]

Kappas, lisää suomalaisia.

[DanM]

I am also sick and tired of having other civs hate me just because I happen to be the most advanced.I've had many many MANY games where I NOT EVEN ONCE instigated any attack all the way to the modern age,and other civs in the later stages of the game decide they now hate me and eventually ally against me and declare war just because I micro-managed my way to be the most advanced civ in the game.I am pretty generous with giving gifts to allies,but,they only remain happy for a few turns and they slowly start to dislike me again(not to mention trading away my hard earned research ideas to a common enemy).It reached a point where I just wouldn't bother with being friendly to anyone,because in the end,what was the point?

[Otso Vuorio]

Yeah! It's cool that you have replied my topic. It's nice to see that you others have been thinking this matter.
I have even thought that some kind of Espionage from the space could be quite effective against the enemies. There should be a possibility to construct a whole satellite system for spying. What you think?

ps. BeeBee, I really happen hate that too, when the one who used to be my best ally makes a pact "to contain my agression" in Civ2. It REALLY irritates me!

[Otso Vuorio]

DanM, I know what you mean, and I think we all know. That Usually happens, when you are more (or most) advanced than the others. The other civilizations get weary and sometimes I have even found myself in a situation where everyone else have decleared war against me. Hopefully they all haven't allied with each other (Well what's the real difference between peace and alliance in civ2 after all ?!?). The other civilizations are just jealous and this is very common in civ2 when you are leading the game .

[DanM]

It would actually be refreshing to see an AI civ be smart enough to know that it might be in their best interest to remain on good terms with the most powerful civ in the game,especially if the stronger civ has done no wrong to the weaker AI civ.
After all,I cannot help but be honorable when I play the game,and I think that if I have been on good terms with another civ for 1000 years,that should not suddenly change just because I am the most advanced.What could change our relationship should be more to do with differing ideals of government,diplomatic blunders,third party disputes etc.
[This message has been edited by DanM (edited April 24, 2000).]

[BeeBee]

You're right DanM,
it is not realistic that suddenly everyone is against you, just because you're the most powerful !
The AI civs should be selfish too, but in favour of themselves (not just to counter you as the most strong one, with the 'implicit' help of everybody else)
It's very logical that a smaller civ remains loyal to you just for self-interest !!

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C'est dur etre bébé

[general_charles]

I think a lot of things that have been said here are right and I would like to express my views on the idea. I think the diplomatic views of the computer are too much turned towards the player, didn't it happen to you that because you are allied with one civ and at war with another, your ally just sends military units to wonder around your cities instead of attacking the other computer player? I think something should be done about this.
It is true that military help should be organized in the game, you should be allowed to make profit selling military equipment to other civs (or even sell losing money, as long as they support your kind of government). This brings me to what I have said in my own room, alliances should be limited by the government type...
To go back to military support, I think it is important, because thanks to capitalisation, you only make between 50 and 100 gold per turn with your best cities, and if you can be able to sell say 400 or so a tank unit that costs 2 to 3 turns, it is a great income bonus. Futhermore, it not only helps you, your treasury, your government type and your allies, it also creates an interesting twist in the game, perhaps creating greater gaps between coalitions of governments, or so called blocks.