Winning Early: What do YOU do?

[UnityScoutChopper]

Interesting, ducki. I would never straitjacket myself with a single set of opening builds, personally -- I may want more or fewer explorers, I may have so many early units (e.g. due to popping warriors from huts) that I build one settler before my granary just for the support boost, I may have so much food and so few shields in my home city that I build a second one to build garrisons to reduce unrest in my home city/ supplement exploration...

But on the other hand, it IS true that I stick to the general formula

explorers - (maybe settler, once in a blue moon something else) - granary - settler/worker factory.

And since I play huge maps, my second, third, and fourth cities are often ALSO settler/worker factories... :-)

USC

[ducki]

I'm not straightjacketing myself, really.
If I have two mined shielded grasslands(or similar food-shield output), rapid expansion is so strong that I find not building the granary slows me down... a lot.
It's non-intuitive that building your first settler later helps you expand faster, but it certainly works for me in every case so far since I read Nathan's analysis, and every time I don't do it, I feel slow.

I really wish the ultra-early granary wasn't so strong - actually, what I wish, is that REX wasn't so strong. As it is, short of a barbarian disaster or a SVC-esque start, I don't think the AI can compete with a human that builds a granary that early. At least at Monarch and below.

[Artifex]

Wonder if it works on emperor.

[ducki]

As soon as I patch, I'll find out.
Look for "Ducki Does C3C at Emperor" in the Strat forum in the next couple of weeks.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Artifex
Wonder if it works on emperor.

I have changed to not send out my first warrior, especially as an AG civ. The next pop comes too fast and you have
an unhappy citizen. I use this for EMP or Demi. I want to keep my research maxed out to get Alphabet-Writing etc.

I think I just used warrior warrior warrior settler then granary. The settler is used to get my pump started. I am still trying different things to see what I like best though.

[Theseus]

I very much vary (!), according to the situation. The starting city is certainly not always going to be the pump, and thus does not necessarily build a granary.

/me gets an idea for a new thread!

[Artifex]

What exactly is the formula for a settler pump? how many turns per settler and what land do you need for the pump?

[Rhothaerill]

There isn't a set formula for a settler pump, but a granary with +5 food per turn (using wheat, cattle, flood plains, the agricultural trait, or any combination) is the first key. The second key is to be able to produce at least 7 shields per turn (spt), and grow to produce 8spt.

Here's how it works. With a granary and +5 food per turn (fpt)your city will grow in 2 turns. If you have produced 7spt then you will have 14 shields toward the settler. The next two turns you must keep the 5fpt to be able to grow in 2 turns. If you can maintain 8spt during those two turns then you will have the 30 shields necessary to build the settler. This is the optimal 4 turn settler as you can rinse and repeat it as much as you want if it's set up like this.

BTW, I purposely did not take into account the extra shields you might get when your city grows, because that is dependent on autoallocation of the next workforce.

[Capt Dizle]

You don't need quite that many shields. If you have a forest handy you will pick up two extra shields on the second and fourth turns.

Six shields is enough. 6+8+7+9=30 shields.

True for PTW, not sure about C3C

[Capt Dizle]

The thing is that if you are running at plus five food the computer will always stick the new worker on a productive tile.

[Harovan]

True for PTW, not sure about C3C

Works the same.

The thing is that if you are running at plus five food the computer will always stick the new worker on a productive tile.

Unless you have set the governor to "maximize food", but then the settler factory with only 6 initial shields doesn't work, because the new laborers will be set on grassland instead of forest.

[rebo]

Regarding winning early.

My priority is to kidnap an enemy civ's worker at the earliest oppurtunity. I will then also destory improvements near their capital.

Usually after a few turns you can have a peace treaty even if it costs some money. Thing is a loss of a worker and their tile impovements at such a early stage is crippiling for the AI especially when its in a 'war' state.

[vmxa1]

That can be fatal above monarchy level. It is something to be very careful about at those levels, The extra units can ruin your day if they are not spread out at the time.

[ducki]

Artifex, go check out "Ducki Does C3C at Emperor" in the Strat forum. Dominae and others took great pains in explaining the 4-turn settler pump on my emperor game, which came with a starting location seemingly tailored for a 4-turn settler pump and a 2-turn worker pump.
Once you "get it" it's a truly amazing feeling of awe and power.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105424

[steven8r]

Originally posted by Lawrenc of Arabia *On a large map, archer rush is still a factor, but not as useful or effective as a later Horsemen rush. Also, since archers are not upgradable past longbowmen, they can be seen as wasted resources, while horsemen go all of the way to Cavalry.

In C3C, Archers (and Warriors) can upgrade all the way to TOWInfantry.
Archer --> Longbowman --> Guerilla --> TOW Infantry --> EndOfLife.
Warrior --> Swordsman --> Medeival Infantry --> Guerilla --> TOW Infantry --> EndOfLife.

Spearmen will upgrade all the way to Mech Infantry.
Spear --> Pike --> Musket --> Rifle --> Infantry --> Mech Infantry --> EndOfLife.

Chariots (and their line) will be good for early, fast-moving warfare.
Charriot --> Horseman --> Knight --> Cavalry --> EndOfLife.

Know your upgrade paths. Upgrading costs gold, but is usually cheaper than using Sheilds to build 'new' units.

Originally posted by Barchan
In just about every military around the globe, elite units are the hardest, toughest, best equipped and most capable units in the force. They're exactly the ones you choose for the tough assignments and they're exactly the ones up front leading the regulars into combat (hence the motto "Rangers Lead the Way").

The Ancient Greek Phalanx charge was made-up of 3 ranks of soldiers. The Rookies were on the front line. The Veterans were behind the Rooks to pressure them onward and to keep them running forward. The 'Elites' (multiple time veterans) were behind the Vets to cleanup the mess left by the front 2 ranks and keep them from running away. (similar info later posted by LoA and Zachriel)

This is not so diferent a strategy than to 'Guard one's Elites'. It worked for the Greeks IRL.


And check-out Ducki's thread above. Very good 'Pump' info

Steven