New Gameplay Mechanics in 1.29f

[vondrack]

Originally posted by =DrJambo=
what about trade embargoes? The other civs may have signed trade embargoes against you whilst at war.

IMHO, it is not that. I am almost every time able to sign a luxury/resource deal right after (i.e. on the same turn as) signing a peace treaty... I, too, am puzzled by this thread. I could have sworn that I have never been able to negotiate lux/res as part of a peace treaty... always greyed out...

[Arrian]

This is very interesting. The back-to-back AU103 screenshots from Theseus and Catt sure seem to contradict one another, don't they? Bizarre.

-Arrian

[Killerdaffy]

I just re-checked my latest 1.29 game and I can definitely NOT trade luxuries and / or strategic resources in a peace deal. Trade route is ok as well and I'm using the AU mod.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Killerdaffy
I just re-checked my latest 1.29 game and I can definitely NOT trade luxuries and / or strategic resources in a peace deal. . .

Yea.

This was a long long thread going nowhere.

I have never seen resources available for a peace deal.

THIS IS DEAD WRONG, and it should have been fixed months ago. Many times we have to continue a war (even if we'd like to end it) owing to a needed resource. This is epecially so if using Firaxis' crazy rare appearance values.

[Catt]

Kilroy pointed out to me that he asked the question of Soren in the February 15th chat (page 4 of the chat transcript, near the bottom):

Kilroy: "Soren: can we demand resources for a civ we're at war with as a requisite for peace?"

Soren: "kilroy: you can only demand resources if renogiating peace, not trying to end a war"

I'd never seen an ability to demand / offer resources in the context of a peace treaty prior to the instance in the Tina the Tourist game. I am now pretty much convinced that it is a small bug in this one game, rather than any real change to the game functions.

Catt

[Stuie]

I usually refrain from quoting certain forum members, but I thought this was interesting:

Originally posted by Coracle
This is epecially so if using Firaxis' crazy rare appearance values.

That perfectly illustrates the difference between what I want in a game and what Coracle is looking for. I actually went in and decreased the appearance values for all strategic resources because I thought there were too many!! What's the point of having them if every civ has access to them? Whatever; I'm still dumbfounded at the fact that Coracle remains here beating his head fervently against the wall that he perceives Civ3 to be.

As for the topic, resources are always greyed out in my Peace negotiations. That doesn't seem right to me. I want to be able to bully the French for their iron.

[Cyclonic]

If this is a bug it's a repeatable one.

Here I offer peace to Shaka:

[Cyclonic]

I can demand Gems. He won't go for that, so I throw in some Ivory:

[Cyclonic]

And we have a deal.

I've never been able to do this before, including all negotiations earlier in the same game.

Could it be only when there is a direct luxuries trade possible?

[Cyclonic]

This was the conclusion of a long war, btw, not a renegotiation of peace.

[Theseus]

Damn!! What's up with this whole issue??!!

FIRAXIS????

(mostly so I can extort luxuries!!)

[Catt]

Originally posted by Cyclonic
If this is a bug it's a repeatable one.

Now you've gone and upset the apple cart (it having been stabilized by everyone's comfort [including mine!] that my experience was a completely freakish, isolated incident, probably due to some weird hardware configuration).

I posted a saved game on CivFanatics because one poster wanted to try the "Quick Restart" to see if the bug carried into subsequent games. Several posters had expressed a desire to enjoy the benefits of the bug, and I briefly imagined my one, sole 'Tina the Tourist' game as being the "Adam" of the "Negotiate Resources w/Peace" world, or, to put a SF Bay Area spin on it, the sourdough starter for all sourdough breadmakers That poster could repeat the feat with any of the 3 civs with whom I was at war in the 'Tina the Tourist' game, but couldn't repeat it on the "Quick Restart" game.

In all seriousness, I haven't been able to repeat the phenomenon, and until some evidence comes in, I'm going to chalk it up to a strange bug.

In terms of game similarities, I will say that my game circumstances involved: (1) a very long war (some 20 or 25+ turns IIRC), and (2) a primarily naval engagement. (your screenshots and posts also imply a long war and a lot of naval battles / overseas invasions).

Catt

[Theseus]

Well, it's not long wars!

A long naval engagement? May be... if so, kudos to the Firaxians for throwing an in-game Easter Egg at us.

Arrian convinced me a while ago of the value of luxuries... if anything, I've become MORE rabid about their value. New thesis, given decent skills: Luxuries = Win.

Being able to include same in peace negotiations would have a significant impact for me.

If this is not a bug, and is somehow allowed given certain triggers, 1) I damn well want to know hw / why, and 2) it's damn subtle... if so, kudos to Firaxis.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Theseus
Arrian convinced me a while ago of the value of luxuries... if anything, I've become MORE rabid about their value. New thesis, given decent skills: Luxuries = Win.

I really believe this as well - at difficulty levels above regent, luxury access (through trade or war) is a make-or-break factor. War for luxuries may become necessary to grow.

That's partly why I can imagine the "Demand Luxuries as Price of Peace" concept may be a game-balance decision (as opposed to a programming challenge). Could be wrong, of course, but I suspect it might be an easily exploitable facet of the game if I could demand strategic and luxury resources during peace negotiations (off-setting the intended effects of war weariness).

Dunno. But curious as to why it seems to be happening now in isolated incidents under 1.29f when I can never recall seeing it before.

Catt

[Theseus]

Total agreement... extorting lux for peace would make this a warmonger extravaganza. I LIKE it that it can't be done (although I'd love to do it ).

Second time today: FIRAXIS??