A Fully 3D, RTS Version of Civilization

[Slingshot]

The Great Hugo Rune found a reference to an apparently new twist on RTS. You can check this game out at http://www.dailyradar.com/previews/g...eview_369.html

I personally don't like RTS.

But suppose we find out that Firaxis is taking a RTS build of Dinos to heart, and has decided to do the same with Civ III?

What sorts of things should we recommend they steer clear of?

[Victor Galis]

They should steer clear of a sperical map, and of RTS. It would be uncivlike. RTS is evil, it is for those cheap "strategy" games. If you compared them in terms of alcohol, RTSes, are the beers of the game world, while Civ2 is a fine wine. Nothing wrong with having a beer, but obviously the wine is superior in design and such.

[Gord McLeod]

I'd rather Civ 3 weren't just a rehash of a game we've all played forever. I want to see a spherical map - I was disappointed that wasn't in Civ2 and SMAC. I would prefer it to be turn-based rather than RTS, but a hybrid of RTS and TBS might be fun, if they do it right and emphasize the TBS aspects... the late-game stages would get pretty hard to play if it's more towards RTS.

[Slingshot]

Victor! NO spherical map? Aaaugh! But because we both live in great countries who hold democracy so dear, I will defend your right to an opinion.

Gord! TBS might be fun? Aaaugh! But because we both live in great provinces who hold Bob and Doug MacKenzie so dear, I will defend your right to beer-calibre ideas.

Actually I guess there could be a benefit to some RTS elements (maybe for battles). But Victor, I agree that the core of RTS is evil.

[Gord McLeod]

quote: Gord! TBS might be fun? Aaaugh! But because we both live in great provinces who hold Bob and Doug MacKenzie so dear, I will defend your right to beer-calibre ideas.

No no no... read that over again. A form of TBS/RTS hybrid might be fun. Civilization does NOT work as RTS... AoE tried it, and IMO failed. It didn't capture the elements of Civ that I enjoy. Lots of other people liked it, so good for them, but it isn't for me and I don't want CivIII to look like it.

[Victor Galis]

OK, how would you implement a spheircal map? No, one's come up with a way, and I would very much prefer the current system over a poorly done sphere.

[Joe Bourque]

A REAL-time-strategy game which stretches over six thousand years of human history would take a little longer to play then I would like. I have nothing against RTS, but it does seem slightly inappropriate for Civilization. Just because RTS makes some kinds of games good does not mean EVERY game needs to be shoehorned into the RTS mold.

I any case, I think we can say for certain that Civ3 will NOT be RTS. After all, one of the reasons Tim Train said he left Firaxis was because he was burned out on Turn Based games. That kinda implies Civ will be turn based, no?

Joe
[This message has been edited by Joe Bourque (edited March 12, 2000).]

[Gord McLeod]

quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis on 03-12-2000 01:07 PM OK, how would you implement a spheircal map? No, one's come up with a way, and I would very much prefer the current system over a poorly done sphere.

Check out Populous - The Beginning. It was done quite well.

[Victor Galis]

Yes, but does it use tiles? Tiles are an integral part of Civ. Civ without tiles is like a Civ RTS.

[Slingshot]

I've been playing around with drawing spheres on AutoCAD. It looks like it is quite easy to put a triangular mesh on any size of globe. Of course, six triangles make a hex, and a hex would make a great shape for a Civ tile...

Civ II and CTP1 simply use diamonds on a 2D plane. The tiles are made to simulate 3D. I think the same could be done on a zoomed-in globe

And something wierd:

What about making a RTS window for battles?
Everything else would be TBS. Each traditional unit icon would represent, say, 30 soldiers. Stacked units would also work. It could make for a long game, but then you get all sorts of new possibilities!

[tniem]

I personally would not want the game to have a RTS battles if the rest is turn based. You think out the entire game like a chess match trying to prepare for the right moment and then suddenly you have to fly the mouse around really fast or you are toast. Although it would simulate the immediate of heat of battle, but for that I have WarCraft 3 coming out some time in 2001, 2002, or on Blizzard time in 2020. Civ III should remain a chess match or as it was elequently called a fine wine.

[Gord McLeod]

quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis on 03-12-2000 04:28 PM Yes, but does it use tiles? Tiles are an integral part of Civ. Civ without tiles is like a Civ RTS.

Nope, it doesn't use tiles, nor does it need to. Most RTS games have been tile-based... I don't see what tiles or their lack have to do with whether a game is RTS or TBS. I'd prefer to see tiles go away, myself, as long as they can keep it feeling like Civ.

[Lord Maxwell]

Nobody's made a good spherical map? Atleast someone more than I played popolous in the beginning.
Now, it is hard to make a sphere if the tiles are square, but if they are the nice six-sided things from war-game maps and d&d it's simple as pie. (Even I could do it.)

[Victor Galis]

"Most RTS games have been tile-based... I don't see what tiles or their lack have to do with whether a game is RTS or TBS. I'd prefer to see tiles go away, myself, as long as they can keep it feeling like Civ."

-My point was that civ3 wouldn't be civ, if it was RTS or without tiles. Tiles are critical to it's feeling like civ.

And no, you can't make a map out of congruent hexagons, we've been over this a million times.

[Gord McLeod]

quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis on 04-09-2000 05:06 PM -My point was that civ3 wouldn't be civ, if it was RTS or without tiles. Tiles are critical to it's feeling like civ.

You mean it wouldn't be Civilization or Civilization II. It would be Civilization III. I'm sure there was someone hanging around when Civ2 was being worked on saying "The tiles can't be diamonds or it's not going to be Civilization." The whole idea is to create a new game... a revolution of the genre. Believe it or not, some of us would actually prefer something that isn't a simple rehash of what's been done a zillion times before.