Maybe the infantry need rubber for their shoes. After all, we wouldn't want them walking aroud bare foot, would we?
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Replaceable Parts needs rubber?
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'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
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Originally posted by fittstim
Condoms, of course, didn't see widespread action until the late 50's/ early 60´s ...
I have no idea why rubber is required for infantry. Standarized parts was the whole premise of the industrial revolution. The concept allowed factories. Oil would be more important to industrial machinery than rubber. You need to have lubrication or your parts will wear down and break.
Replaceable parts and rubber, I don't see the link. But it doesn't bother me in the game, it's fine that infantry require a resource and I guess rubber is it.
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Originally posted by dunk
Catholics aren't allowed to use them (even today... sex is only for procreation ),
The concept allowed factories.
Oil would be more important to industrial machinery than rubber. You need to have lubrication or your parts will wear down and break.
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I try to think of Rubber (or any of the Stragegic Resources) as a little more than just the resource.
Don't think of Rubber as just some plant juice that repels water. Think in terms of the 'macro resource'.
Your civ now has the ability AND materials to make tires for trucks (that you never actually see) that enable a whole new and faster delivery system throughout your civ.
That's why Workers can work faster. They can now go down to the local hardware store and buy a new hoe/shovel/pick/axe/machete handle rather than having to whittle one out of sticks that they find lying around.
With this better supply line, the concept of Infantry can now be built because your sewing factories can now receive cloth to make those spiffy uniforms. Your arms mfgrs can now get the materials to make better bullets/guns in shorter order.
Rubber (at least as applied to Civ3) is not just a Resource. It's a whole new way of life/thinking."...Every Right implies a certain Responsibility; Every Opportunity, an Obligation; Every Possession, a Duty." --J.D. Rockerfeller, Jr.
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Originally posted by steven8r
I try to think of Rubber (or any of the Stragegic
Rubber (at least as applied to Civ3) is not just a Resource. It's a whole new way of life/thinking.
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Originally posted by Ethelred
Not quite right. Only for married people and birth controll is a no no but it need not be for procreation only.
Originally posted by Ethelred
Factories came first. Mostly for textiles, but they definitly came first.
Originally posted by Ethelred
No need for the kind of oil the game uses. At least not in such quantity that drilling was needed. What do you think whale hunting was about anyway. It was mostly for oil not food.
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Originally posted by dunk
Then what purpose do married people use them for?
Sex is only for procreation in the Catholic church, which is why birth control is a no no. Unmarried people having sex is adultery, which is a mortal sin.
Unmarried people having sex is fornication not adultery. Adultery is sex with someones wife. Not with someones husband either. Only the wife counts as adultery in the Bible. Its really a property issue.
I wouldn't call those factories. More like Working Places. The first "factories" were simply big rooms where a bunch of people did things by hand.
An industrial factory has some kind of automation or mechanical help. That's what the Industrial Revolution was about. Using machines to produce goods as opposed to hand labor. Interchangeable Parts made machines a viable source of labor.
The Jacquard loom was the first highly automated textile machine but there were simpler ones before that were limited to unpatterned cloth. Jaquard's was developed around 1800 long before rubber was a usefull product.
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"Contraception, sterilization and abortion are certainly part of the reason why in some cases there is a sharp decline in the birthrate. It is not difficult to be tempted to use the same methods and attacks against life also where there is a situation of "demographic explosion".
Source.... http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...-vitae_en.html
Read section 16. That's the Vatican. I'm a former Catholic myself. I don't think they would call it an "attack against life" if they thought contraception was ok.
EDIT: I forgot this part.
And here's a definition of Adultery. I was wrong about ALL extramarital sex being adultery. Unmarried people having sex is called fornication. It may have been only the wife in olden days, but it now includes the husband. I think the "property issue" is more non-Cristian tradition rather than Christian beliefs. I think the marriage vows speak for themselves on that account.
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Ok, fine the Industrial Revolution was about Steam Power. Not only did it allow factories to be away from flowing water, but it allowed more automation (and hence greater production capabilities), which I've always been taught was the big thing about the Industrial Revolution in school. Standardized parts helped facilitate the use of complex machines by allowing them to be repaired more easily.Last edited by dunk; August 8, 2002, 16:36.
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Originally posted by dunk
Read section 16. That's the Vatican. I'm a former Catholic myself. I don't think they would call it an "attack against life" if they thought contraception was ok.
It may have been only the wife in olden days, but it now includes the husband. I think the "property issue" is more non-Cristian tradition rather than Christian beliefs. I think the marriage vows speak for themselves on that account.
Marriage vows have little to do with what the commandment is. The commandment is Jewish not Christian. If anyone has decided it means the husband they are denying what the Bible says. Fine by me but you were talking about the biblical commandment and some modern distortion.
Standardized parts helped facilitate the use of complex machines by allowing them to be repaired more easily.
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Originally posted by Ethelred
You still don't understand the difference. Not allowing contraception is not the same thing as saying sex is only for procreation. Its saying that pregnancy must be possible not certain. Thats different.
Contrception..... Intentional prevention of conception or impregnation through the use of various devices, agents, drugs, sexual practices, or surgical procedures.
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
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I think we're arguing in circles. Nobody wants unplanned children, even the Church. But the Church doesn't want people to "kill" potential people by using things like condoms or practices to lower pregnancy chances. So, the only way to accomplish "planned parenthood" is to only have sex when pregnancy is an acceptable outcome. Condoms, rhythm method, sponges are all no nos. This is why I say the Church beleives that sex is only for pro-creation.
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Originally posted by Ethelred
Marriage vows have little to do with what the commandment is. The commandment is Jewish not Christian. If anyone has decided it means the husband they are denying what the Bible says. Fine by me but you were talking about the biblical commandment and some modern distortion.
Originally posted by Ethelred
Yes. The only thing is that it came after the Industrial Revolution began and the earliest efforts still required a lot of hand work. At least in what was the first effort in the US which was with firearms. Prior to electric motors whole factories where powered from a single source with shafts and pulleys. That limited the applicability of machine tools. Its interesting how long it took to get from the discovery of electricity to its application for power. It was a long time between Volta and Edison and more to the point Tesla and his motors.Last edited by dunk; August 9, 2002, 10:10.
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Originally posted by dunk
By the Catholic Church, you may only have sex if it is in an attempt to conceive a child. Sex simply for pleasure is a no no.
Contrception..... Intentional prevention of conception or impregnation through the use of various devices, agents, drugs, sexual practices, or surgical procedures.
EDIT:
I think we're arguing in circles.
So, the only way to accomplish "planned parenthood" is to only have sex when pregnancy is an acceptable outcome.
Condoms, rhythm method, sponges are all no nos. This is why I say the Church beleives that sex is only for pro-creation.
END EDIT
True, but they do have to do with what the Church beleives now.
I know the 8th or 9th commandment is "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife." Today that is meant as spouse.
The meaning did not change simply because its no longer PC. The Pope has been clear on that regarding other points of dogma. So unless the Pope wants to declare this a change from what the Bible actually says then you are merely avoiding what the Bible says.
The Church has changed its views on women. The Catholic Church does not adhere to an exact literal interpretation of the Bible. For the most part it is literal, but some parts have changed slightly.
Ok. Agreed. How was electricity first discovered? I can't remember.
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dunk, man, I am with you... but do everybody a favor, please, and be the wiser one - give up... completely...
Strictly technically, Ethelred is correct. Your original statement ("the Catholic Church allows sex for procreation only") is not true. The Church apparently does not relate it in this way. You can have sex, if married and if using no birth control means. So far, Ethelred is correct. However, everybody understands that this reasoning is totally absurd, as it prevents people from having sex for pleasure only safely - you are always bound to accept possible pregnancy, even if unwanted.
It is just playing with words. Opposite of "for pleasure only" is not "for procreation only", although most people would agree that the practical meaning is much the same. Ethelred would understand you, too, should he wanted.
Ethelred, are you having a bad week? This is for the second time this week you flame up and start an argument because of a totally marginal, off-topic issue. First that childish dispute over breech-loaders with Barchan, now this contraception thing. What about keeping on topic more closely?
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Originally posted by vondrack
It is just playing with words. Opposite of "for pleasure only" is not "for procreation only", although most people would agree that the practical meaning is much the same. Ethelred would understand you, too, should he wanted.
Ethelred, are you having a bad week? This is for the second time this week you flame up and start an argument because of a totally marginal, off-topic issue. First that childish dispute over breech-loaders with Barchan, now this contraception thing. What about keeping on topic more closely?
I wasn't childish with Barchan. He has his PM turned off if you didn't notice. I would still have made the first post however. Its my standard responce to people that engage in spelling games. The others would have been PMs. I will continue to use that responce to people that harp on my spelling errors when the intent was clear. When it isn't clear I deserve it and will admit it.
As for on topic I only replied to Dunk's posts. I really didn't expect him to keep repeating the exact same thing.
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Originally posted by Ethelred
I wasn't childish with Barchan. He has his PM turned off if you didn't notice. I would still have made the first post however. Its my standard responce to people that engage in spelling games. The others would have been PMs. I will continue to use that responce to people that harp on my spelling errors when the intent was clear. When it isn't clear I deserve it and will admit it.
Apolyton is an international site, so you may wish to release your standard responses to people that correct your spelling. It never hurts to put it right...
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