Announcement

**Catt** · August 2, 2002, 15:37

It may be "right" in the sense that Infogrames' warranty only covers defects from production (not later damage to an otherwise normal product).

It is, however, astonishingly poor customer relations. I would have expected them to offer a replacement if you sent the scratched disc back (so they knew you had a legal copy). Haven't ever been in your situation, but it certainly strikes me as a surprising response from a consumer products distributor.

Catt

**Jaybe** · August 2, 2002, 15:39

That kind of response sounds unusual. I would suspect that either (1) you were talking to someone who was having a bad day, or (2) you were being aggressive/antagonistic with the person, and they got so upset at you they chose to be "unprofessional".

I recommend you try again, keep your cool if that was the problem, and hope you end up talking to someone else.

**Venge** · August 2, 2002, 16:00

The following is record of every e-mail that went between us.
As follows

You suggested I get in touch with the UK division of the help line after
several e-mails between us. This was their response. I have also included
the e-mails that we have exchanged.
Please let me know if nothing can be done. If this is the case, then I am
truly disappointed.
But I do ask that you respond either way.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
Hello Chris,

I am very sorry, but we don't have any replacement copies of Civ3 here.
Unfortunately Infogrames UK do not have a disc replacement policy and once
our 5 copies of the game have been sent out we rarely get any more. Once
again i apologise but i think you will have to buy a new copy of the game

james muir
Infogrames UK Helpline
21 Castle Street
Castlefield
Manchester
M3 4SW

Tel: 0161 827 8060

for additional support and downloads, try...

<http://www.uk.infogrames.com/>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tech5 (HE)"
To: "'Chris and Sheryl'"
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:40 AM
Subject: RE: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :

> Chris,
>
> You may want to contact our UK departmetns to see if you can't get a
> replacment.
>
> It sounds like your CD is scratched or damaged.
>
> Infogrames U.K.
> http://www.uk.infogrames.com
>
> Telephone: (0) 161 827 8060 Mon-Fri, 10:00am - 5:30pm
> Fax: (0) 161 827 8091
> Email: helpline@uk.infogrames.com
>
> If you require any further assistance, include all previous E-mails in
your
> response.
>
> James L
> North America Technical Support Rep
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris and Sheryl [mailto:venge@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:59 PM
> To: Tech5 (HE)
> Subject: Re: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
>
>
> James,
>
> Ok, I have washed the cd as per instructed. I then tried to run the game,
> with no luck, still the same problem. So I deleted the game off of my
hard
> drive, as you suggested, and have tried to re-install. The problem is, it
> still will not read the Civ3 cd, so now I no longer have the game on my
> harddrive.
> Is there anything that can be done?
> Thanks,
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tech5 (HE)"
> To: "'Chris and Sheryl'"
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:31 AM
> Subject: RE: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
>
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > Many times, this kind of problem is caused by a dirty or damaged Disk.
> > Inspect the shiny underside of the CD and locate any fingerprints,
> scratches
> > or smudges. Any one of these or a combination could result in the error
> you
> > are receiving.
> >
> > The best way to resolve this is to clean the CD. You can do this by
> washing
> > the CD under luke-warm water. Use a liquid detergent that is
non-abrasive
> > and use your fingers to spread the soap evenly across the shiny
underside.
> > To dry the CD use a soft cotton lint-free towel that will not create any
> > further scratches. Paper towels are highly discouraged due to the
> abrasive
> > nature of the fabric.
> >
> > When drying, make sure that you wipe from the inner-circle towards the
> > outer-circle. Wipe against the grain, so you don't leave streaks the
same
> > way that the laser reads.
> >
> > Once you have finished, try the game again.
> >
> > If the problem persist, you may need to uninstall the game completely
and
> > reinstall it once more.
> >
> > If you require any further assistance, include all previous E-mails in
> your
> > response.
> >
> > James L
> > North America Technical Support Rep
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris and Sheryl [mailto:venge@xtra.co.nz]
> > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 9:17 PM
> > To: Tech5 (HE)
> > Subject: Re: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
> >
> >
> > Still having the same problem,
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tech5 (HE)"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 10:44 AM
> > Subject: RE: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
> >
> >
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > Try disabling all third-party applications running in the background.
> > >
> > > To do this, hold down the CTRL+ALT+DEL keys, all at the same time.
This
> > > will bring up the Close Program dialog box. In here, you will see a
> > number
> > > of items. The only ones that Windows needs to run are Systray and
> > Explorer.
> > > All other programs here are extraneous, and are not necessary for
> Windows
> > to
> > > function.
> > >
> > > Since they may be causing conflicts or memory problems, you will want
to
> > > turn them off. Don't worry - nothing we do here is permanent;
> everything
> > > here will return when you restart the computer. Select a program
> (besides
> > > Explorer and Systray), and then click the End Task button at the
bottom
> of
> > > this window. If another window pops up saying that the program is not
> > > responding, click End Task on this window as well. This will drop you
> out
> > > to the desktop. Press CTRL+ALT+DEL again, and repeat as necessary
until
> > > only Explorer and Systray are left.
> > >
> > > Once this process is complete, try running the program again, and see
> how
> > it
> > > works.
> > >
> > > If you require any further assistance, include all previous E-mails in
> > your
> > > response.
> > >
> > > James L
> > > North America Technical Support Rep
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: venge@xtra.co.nz [mailto:venge@xtra.co.nz]
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 11:12 PM
> > > To: tech1@us.infogrames.com
> > > Subject: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
> > >
> > >
> > > CUSTOMER INFORMATION
> > > Name : Chris Haines
> > > Email : venge@xtra.co.nz
> > > Phone : 0116494330225
> > > Birthday : 09/15/1963
> > > Country : NEW ZEALAND
> > >
> > > PURCHASE INFORMATION
> > > Date : 01/05/2002
> > > Location : Auckland
> > >
> > > SYSTEM INFORMATION
> > > OS : WIN_ME
> > > Browser : Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x
> 4.90;
> > > Q312461)
> > > IP Address : 203.96.111.202:22251
> > >
> > > ISSUE DESCRIPTION
> > > First off, I did not see any International Help site for New Zealand,
so
> I
> > > choose this one.
> > >
> > > Ok, here is the problem. I have been running Civ3 for quite some time
> and
> > > only recently had this problem. When I put the Civ3 CD in my CD drive
> and
> > > try to start the prog with my desktop icon, it does not start up all
the
> > > time. At first this was an intermitant problem, but now the game is
> > > unplayable.
> > > Sometimes it even acts as if the cd is not in the drive and asks me
for
> > it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
>

**Theseus** · August 2, 2002, 16:18

You've been Civ3-less for SIX WEEKS??!!

Poor fellow.

Firaxis to the emergency room, stat.

(help this guy out, por favor)

**Matt_G** · August 2, 2002, 16:23

Maybe someone from his neck of the woods can help this guy out eh????
I am willing to, but I'm in the U.S.
Would take a while for the mail to get it there.

P.S.
I sent you an e-mail Venge

**Venge** · August 2, 2002, 16:26

Ya, no Civ3 for a while, scary isn't it?
To make matters worse, I am the most active moderator at another Civ3 forum, and the amount of input I have is less and less due to my lack of experience with the latest patches and such.

**vondrack** · August 2, 2002, 16:28

Wise words, Jaybe. I would recommend exactly the same. I can't believe that an Infogrames representative would dare to suggest such an outrageous solution.

One more suggestion: you may (calmly!) point out that - because of the copy protection scheme used - you were unable to create a backup copy (which you are granted by law, even in New Zealand, I believe) that would help you avoid this problem. And that it would only be fair from Infogrames to replace the scratched CD, if you return the no longer usable original to them.

The crucial thing is to stay calm and not to attack the person on the other end...

Edit: Oops... the server had some problems, so my post got posted only after almost an hour. It is now missing the point, I know. What about talking back to the Infogrames US? After all, they gave you an advice that did not work...

**Venge** · August 2, 2002, 16:36

But after having read the e-mails that went between Infrogrames and myself, would you say I did not remain calm?
I just re-read it (a few posts up) and honestly feel I did not respond incorrectly at all.
I must be missing something here, feel free to point it out.

**Venge** · August 2, 2002, 17:09

Oops for me too, my previous post was put up after your edit made it ...
lol
I did re e-mail the US helpline with the UK reponse attached. That is the e-mail I posted here, above.

**Fitz** · August 2, 2002, 17:20

DO NOT BUY A NEW COPY. This is a common CivIII (in fact all Firaxis games CDs) problem. I have had this problem with CivIII and SMAX. Apparently Firaxis uses sub par CDs (or maybe its their coding or copy protection) that has major problems with some CD/DVD software and hardware.

You can especially expect this problem with DVD players by (IIRC) Creative Labs.

If you are using a DVD player or a CDR/W that came with self exectuting software, you have to hunt down the software apps and kill them before the game (although I note you apparently already tried this). Then try multiple times to get the game to start by ejecting the CD, and putting it in again until the autuplay pops up. Don't try to start the game via the desktop shortcut, the CD needs to be ejected and repositioned to do this.

I had this problem for a long time, and still have to eject the CD 3-4 times on average before the game starts up.

I would also recommend hunting down the latest ME CD/DVD-ROM driver for your hardware.

Edit: The reason I recommend trying to get this copy to work instead of buying a new one is that I did just that for SMAX. Guess what, same problem. Even after I got a new computer, completely different brand of CD-ROM Drive (actually a DVD Drive), both CDs, as well as the CivIII CD, experience this problem. Strangely enough, non of my other CDs (game or music) experience this problem despite some fairly major scratches on some, except for one that is scratched beyond belief and now used as a coaster.

**notyoueither** · August 2, 2002, 18:58

That answer from Infogrames sux. BTW Fitz, it's the publishers that handle copy protection and media production.

A couple solutions Venge. Contact MrWhereItsAt or Grrr!
Both are users of this forum and both are in New Zealand. One of them may very well be able to post a burned copy to you so that you can install.

Another is that small scratches on CDs can be repaired. There are various formulations for this. One that I am familiar with is called Wipe Out. I doubt that is available where you are, but the larger computer outlets would have something similar. You use a dab on a cloth or a cue tip, rub it on the scratch and often the defect can be 'read around'.

In either case, get a back up. Where I am there are innumerable people who have burners and software capable of copying the Civ3 CD. The reason why it is legal for you to make a back up (in most areas) is very evident from your situation.

**ACooper** · August 2, 2002, 19:58

OK. I just had to do the following with my old Novell 5.1 installation disk at work. If your brave enough give it a try. It worked for me and the server is up and running.

First wash your cd with dish soap and cool water. Rinse well. Don't let it dry. Then you need some toothpaste (the white kind, not a gel). Using a small amount rub the toothpaste into the disk with your finger. Only rub along the radius. (That is, from the center hole to the edge.) Don't use a circular motion, you must use a straight line. Don't use too much pressure, but use a 'normal' pressure. Do this at least for any part of the disk where you had seen previous scratches. You may need to do the whole disk. Rinse very well and dry with the softest cloth you can find. Again only wiping from the center out to the edge.

You may have to repeat this process a couple of times.

The reason this works: If you have a disk that is slightly damaged with scratches tangent to the circular track, this may cause the CD to skip from one track to another. Now using the toothpaste (or any commercial product) puts scratches along the radius that the laser reader will jump over rather than follow the wrong path.

All comercial products for fixing CDs work on the same exact principle. You can try those too.

OK, you can call me nuts now, but it does work.

**miccofl** · August 2, 2002, 20:12

Completely remove the game from your system making sure all program folders and shortcuts have been removed. Then copy the CD to a folder on your hard drive and install the game from there. Before you even start the game, download and install the 1.29f patch. If the game will not install from the hard drive, in all probability your CD is indeed damaged. If the CD will not copy to your hard drive, you have an OS, drive falure or memory issue. If this solves your problem, enjoy your game.

**GhengisFarb™** · August 2, 2002, 20:25

I can't believe there are companies this unconcerned with customer service. By the simple laws of market-economics, it's time for Infogrames to go out of business and be replaced by a competent company.

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