Firaxis...Ships Being Attacked by Invisibles...?!!!

[=DrJambo=]

Anyone else notice that since 1.29f, that some modern ships are getting attacked by ships you can't see...

The only thing i can assume is that these are enemy subs, but when they attacked in 1.21f we could see them?!

I can see my own fine, just not the enemy's when they attack..

Anyone shed light on this?

[Bleyn]

I've noticed it too. I'm pretty sure they're just subs that aren't appearing during the attack for some reason. Try doing what I'm doing in my current game, build a couple subs and send 'em out to move with your other ships. You may not be able to move the other ships quite as quickly, but at least you should be able to see the enemy subs.

[notyoueither]

I've seen this with 1.21 as well.

Some one posted a sav with the Barbarian garrison bug. In playing the turn many AI subs attacked without appearing.

In my own games I've seldom been attacked by enemy subs. I do remember having a Carrier attacked in a staging area once. IIRC the sub did not show up.

I've run one over the odd time. Then they show up.

[DeepO]

Do the AIs have stealths? I have yet to see the first one of those attacking... I thought they only showed when they were shot down.
Otherwise, there are some problems at the end of the map (where east becomes west): most of the times the airplanes that attack here are not shown right.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Erh... I just had the same thing happening to me... it was not on the edge of the map, but after the attack, the blub-blub sound of a sub sinking could be heard. As far as I know, stealths do not sink

Strange. I seem to remember that subs would surface before an attack, so that you could see them. Maybe something has changed in the last patch.

DeepO

[Inverse Icarus]

i guess (if its true) it wouldnt show you WHERE the sub was attacking from, making them a bit more useful...

maybe.

[Willem]

Originally posted by DeepO

Strange. I seem to remember that subs would surface before an attack, so that you could see them. Maybe something has changed in the last patch.

DeepO

That's why there's a "Detect Invisible" flag in the unit attributes! I'm not sure off hand, but there's probably a ship, or a plane that will reveal submarines. It sounds to me like Firaxis has just made subs to work the way they're supposed to.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by DeepO
Strange. I seem to remember that subs would surface before an attack, so that you could see them. Maybe something has changed in the last patch.

DeepO

They've become fearful of surface ships and fire while still submerged....

[DeepO]

Willem, there is a ship that will detect subs: the Aegis cruiser. But that was not what I was referring to, I thought that it used to be so that subs were briefly visible when attacking a ship. Now they are not.

As Ubercrux said, it was probably done so that you have a harder time finding the sub after the attack, you need either another sub or an Aegis to see it (or you can hunt him down by moving all over the place with some destroyers until you find the square it's hiding in). It's better this way, but it takes a bit of getting used to.

DeepO

[Willem]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb


They've become fearful of surface ships and fire while still submerged....

Which is pretty much how subs respond in real life isn't it?

[Iskandar Reza]

In the Navy...

[=DrJambo=]

I would just like an official response from the Firaxis team as to whether this was intentional or not...!

I mean, i don't mind one way or another, however, as it is... if you are fighting many civs you've no idea which civ's sub has attacked you?!

[notyoueither]

One of the ones at war with you?

Hidden does not mean hidden nationality (like Privateers). They are different flags in the editor.

[mwaf]

Originally posted by =DrJambo=
I would just like an official response from the Firaxis team as to whether this was intentional or not...!

I mean, i don't mind one way or another, however, as it is... if you are fighting many civs you've no idea which civ's sub has attacked you?!

In RealLife(TM), would a transport being attacked by and enemy sub know which country attacked it? I doubt.

OTOH, another sub, being able to spot that enemy sub, would probably be able to identify which country it is from. Hence, having subs flagged as hidden and not hidden nationality, is certainly the right choice. (In terms of realism.)

[DeepO]

mwaf, I'm no navy expert, but I thought that irl it was possible to identify subs by the noises they make... both other subs and larger ships can do this. But, that doesn't matter much, it is a game-thing, and I think that a hidden, but not hidden nationality unit is a nice addition...

One idea which might be difficult to test: In my case the sub attacking was a nuclear one (I haven't seen it, of course, but at that time the Japanese had only nuclear subs), could it be that normal subs surface, while nuclears stay hidden when attacking? From a game mechanical point of view, this could make sense: the 2 subs are originally the same what ADM is concerned (except the movement being 1 higher for the nuke), there could as well be a little more difference between them.

OTOH, all subs could stay hidden...

DeepO