Civ3 still has gameplay & diplomacy flaws.

[miike]

The fact that the computer civs obviously trades tech advances to give it an unfair advantage is bad enough. This is the worst part. I go to war with cavalry attacking and riflemen defending. My veteran and elite cav can not get past pikemen and phalanxs. Meanwhile, the enemy regular cav mows down my veteran riflemen. The fact that you are not playing against 7 other civs, but really one computer opponent controling the 7 other civs. Most of my games end with me losing against the computer, because the computer goes to war in round-robin fashion. When one civ has had enough, somebody else goes to war. Meanwhile, I do not declare war on anybody. Everytime, a patch comes out I try and play the game, but it is the same crap. This has been the situation since the beginging. No one has bothered to fix this. I used to really like Sid games, civ/civ2/smac/covert action, and a few others. Really good games. But civ3 sucks, and the sid name is now mud. Allowing the AI to cheat and have an unfair advantage is no excuse for having bad AI. Heck the AI even knows where the end game resources are going to be before they pop-up. I.E. uranium/oil/coal/rubber.
The CIV3 programmers may have tricked some people, but it should be obvious what is really going on here.
Anyways, now that I have vented on civ3, I will wait for another patch to hopefully fix what has been wrong with the game since the beginning. But I am not holding my breath.

[MarkG]

The fact that you are not playing against 7 other civs, but really one computer opponent controling the 7 other civs.

well this has been going since civ1....

[Solver]

Hi Markos .

Well, currently the 7 civs are much more different. In Civ 1/2 they always acted as one team, not they do tend to hate each other.

[miike]

That does not explain how the other civs so readily trade techs with one another and not with the player. Either trade fairly with everyone, or rip everybody off.

[Solver]

Because the AI is supposed to do it. If AI 1 offers AI 2 100 gold, AI 2 sees it as if it was offered 150 gold.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by miike
That does not explain how the other civs so readily trade techs with one another and not with the player. Either trade fairly with everyone, or rip everybody off.

You can change this in the editor. Hell, if you want to, you can even make it so that AI civs offer techs to each other for 10,000 gold, but for you only 1 gold.

Ahhhh, the beauty of an editor.

[miike]

Sorry that does not make sense to me. Why the AI would have been programed like that is beyond me. Just one more complaint is that the computer never trades fairly.

[miike]

Originally posted by Trip

You can change this in the editor. Hell, if you want to, you can even make it so that AI civs offer techs to each other for 10,000 gold, but for you only 1 gold.

Ahhhh, the beauty of an editor.

Well it is not my intention to scam the other AI civs. Merely to keep everyone trading fairly. In my games, the AI civs rarely even bother trading with me. And I slowly but surely get left in the dust. Playing CIV3 for me is more frustrating then fun.

[Artifex]

The ai knows where all the goodie huts are and all the barbarian camps. They seek them out like heat seeking missles. They also trade techs to each other for pennies on the dollar all the while not considering trading with you. SO the AI does cheat no doubt about it.

[vondrack]

miike,

Do not take this as an insult, please. I went through the very same what you are experiencing, just that I was too stubborn to give up. Believe me that what you think is a game flaw is ENTIRELY a matter of not mastering the game (and in some cases, apparently just bad luck). Civ3 really is a difficult game, especially for people who played Civ2 a lot and later tried to use their Civ2 strategies in Civ3 (like I did).

It's been a couple of weeks since we were discussing the problem of AIs "ganging up" on the human player here in the forums. I believe I am not lying if I say that the common consent eventually was that what humans tend to interpret as "AIs ganging up on the human player" is in fact a consequence of two vital concepts that seem to determine the AI policy with respect to wars, alliances, pacts etc.

1) AIs are likely to gang up on the current leader (most probably because it is the civ most likely to win the game - by stopping/crippling it, other civs are improving their chances to win the game instead).

2) AIs are likely to gang up on weak(ened) civs (most probably because getting involved in such conflicts means grabbing new land easily).

I have won seven full-scale 8-civ Regent level games on Standard maps so far (playing different civs). I have lost or given up about ten times more... however, out of my last five games started, I have won three, IIRC. I have spent something like 300-400+ hours playing Civ3 and I am absolutely sure that the AI civs are NOT controlled by a single AI coordinating them. They do such awful things to one another... and they are pretty easy to join your war efforts if it is advantageous for them.

Try to assume that they do not play as one team. Look at their actions with no bias - and I am sure that you will realize they behave like a pack of wolves.

Also, as for the cheating... yes, it is publicly known that the AI cheats quite a bit. Without the cheating, it would be a very poor opponent (Soren - the guy who wrote the AI - said so, IIRC). However, this cheating is really just enough to make it fairly competitive on the Regent level...

I suggest you relax a bit, read through various threads especially in the Strategy forum and then start playing Civ3 with an open mind. Try this and that, leave strategies that do not work, develop and improve those that do. I assure you it is one hell of a game. One with the best AI I have ever seen (this is not to say that the Civ3 AI would be such a great one, but it is the best one I have seen - other games do not have AIs half that fine). One of the most difficult to win, IMHO.

My post is not meant to tell you "you dumb greenhorn, can't you recognize a great game?". It is meant to tell you "Don't wait for more patches, you are and would probably forever be missing an awesome game. Just spend some time experimenting, testing, and learning. Do not expect to win from the very beginning."

If you still end up in hopeless positions, feel free to post your savegames here in the forums. I bet there will always be somebody willing to review them and offer advice on how to improve your playing skills and eventually start winning.

Regards,
Radek

[MattHiggs]

Hopefully there will be no more games released as crap as Civ3

[Colonel D.]

Excellent reply Vondrack!!

I, too, get frustrated with this game, but understand how difficult it is to strike a good compromise between playability and a game that is also challenging.

When I have more time, I will regale you with my thoughts on how to fix the air power and naval aspects of this game. Or you can check out my rantings at the 1bigcommunity site if you so choose.

Regards to the Czech Republic!

Colonel D.

[Solver]

Vondrack - one of the best posts I've read on the subject, and my hours of playing Civ 3 and watching others play prove your observations.

[jshelr]

Vondrack is quite right!!

1. Grovel -- if you get ganged up upon in the ancient era it is frequently because you stubbornly refuse to be blackmailed. Give in. Crawl. Wait cunningly for your civ to build a military advantage.

2. Gang up on them instead. When you get ready to attack, save up some gold to bribe Greece to attack Rome with you. The craven scum will be bribed cheaply!! Then you can enjoy the spoils because you will have your settlers prebuilt to take over razed city spaces.

3. On tech trading, either I'm crazy or it is now much less bothersome than pre-patch. Maybe both. I play on emperor and have usually kept research at zero after horses and iron. But the AI research is too slow now and the human can actually keep a tech lead, even getting some early wonders. Very refreshing.

[Solver]

2. Gang up on them instead. When you get ready to attack, save up some gold to bribe Greece to attack Rome with you. The craven scum will be bribed cheaply!! Then you can enjoy the spoils because you will have your settlers prebuilt to take over razed city spaces.

Of course. The AI is, all in all, no fool. This is why later in the game, once a military conflict arises, there's a pretty large possibility of more nations being involved. The AI wants to get allies, so get them before the AI does... or face war by several nations.