Submarines as Privateers?

[dac]

Apologies if this has been discussed already, but I truly like submarines and keep searching for ways to make them more useful. I'm now thinking of editing them to have the "white" flag, or the unknown owner flag, whatever that is called. Has anybody tried this?

This will only work if the AI truly doesn't know (or at least pretends like it doesn't) where your submarines are unless they are observed. I've watched AI ships sail halfway across the world to attack one of my privateers. (I often use that stunt to bring AI navies within range of my bombers before declaring war). If the AI is going to congregate around my "white" subs, then this trick will be worse than useless.

The other question is how effective will the AI be at using the "white" subs? I remember some early threads where Vel was fairly pleased with the AIs use of a "Land Privateer" unit, hopefully that might extend to naval units.

How about it, anybody tried this and have some results, pointers to pass along?

Thanks
dac

[Solver]

I remember the AI using pretty much subs in 1.21f, maybe because I like to use them. But I see them as useful enough already, especially nuke subs. Maybe give regular subs ability of carrying cruise missiles.

[dunk]

I've never seen an AI privateer. So, I wouldn't think they would build a "hidden nationality" submarine either. Come to think of it, I've never seen an AI submarine either.

[Dom Pedro II]

I HAVE... trust me... subs with hidden nationality are no fun. It sucks when your battleship is inexplicably destroyed in the middle of the ocean by something you never even saw by a nation you're supposed to be at peace with.

The AI never builds privateers because their stats are terrible, not because they have the hidden nationality. The AI goes nuts with the hidden nationality option, and they just start attacking everything in sight. Be careful about that choice.

[ALPHA WOLF 64]

i made the subs hidden and invisible and the AI will build them. However, the 2 flags seem to conflict because the subs dont stay invisible and my subs are constantly being attacked by AI cruise missles and bombers, and sailing ships. Unfortunately, i gave subs bombard so they could bombard enemy ships without fear of being sunk, but that gave them the ability to bombard land also and when they destroy an improvement, you get a message about which civ the sub/rivateer belongs to.

[dac]

Thanks for the information, Dom Pedro II and Alpha Wolf 64, that's a bit what I was afraid of. Is there a flag I could use to make destroyers detect submarines, returning them to their traditional role?

It sounds like the AI just gleefully sinks anything on the high seas with a hidden nationality sub, not really caring whether it is anything of strategic importance or not.

So, basically it sounds like a fun experiment, but not a long term setting.

[kring]

Yes, it is detect invisible (or something like that) under unit abilities. Just use Control Click when choosing. I have done that with my destroyers, battleships, and carriers.

I have seen the AI build Privateers, but only if I build them first. Same thing with subs. In my experience, it appears the AI only builds some things if I do.

I will try this out later myself.

[Catt]

Re: making subs more useful (slightly OT from "hidden nationality" flag)

In an old mod I gave the regular sub the ability to carry up to 4 foot soldiers (for dropping sabotage teams behind the lines) and the nuclear sub the ability to carry 4 missles (cruise or nuclear).

Made subs a lot more interesting, and the AI civs used both versions against me.

Catt

[Willem]

Originally posted by dunk
Come to think of it, I've never seen an AI submarine either.

Yeah well, isn't that kind of the point?

[Thrawn05]

i've done this to, and I like it, except for the number of bombers that fly off the enemy cost and kill my sub.


THERE IS A BUG! Turn on that civ color circle won't turn white, it will be the color of that sub's civ. So this is more of a cheat bug then a crash bug.

[Coracle]

The only REAL purpose of subs and privateers was and is to attack merchant shipping on trade routes - not enemy warships. But we could have a hundred of them on an enemy's trade routes and it would NOT effect his commerce, wealth, or trade at all. Which is stupid.

We've complained about this since December and Firaxis refuses to fix it.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Coracle
The only REAL purpose of subs and privateers was and is to attack merchant shipping on trade routes - not enemy warships. But we could have a hundred of them on an enemy's trade routes and it would NOT effect his commerce, wealth, or trade at all. Which is stupid.

We've complained about this since December and Firaxis refuses to fix it.

*Sigh* Coracle, why do you still play the game? I'm sure you've been asked this many times....

On topic: The AI, if I flag something as hidden nationality, will bulid tons of the unit. Turns will bog down, and it eventually crashes.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000


*Sigh* Coracle, why do you still play the game? I'm sure you've been asked this many times....

On topic: The AI, if I flag something as hidden nationality, will bulid tons of the unit. Turns will bog down, and it eventually crashes.

I don't know the AI knows when to stop building ships units in general. Somtimes it's good to build land units on costal cities, or doesn't the AI know this by now?

The AI only builds two sea units IMHO, galleys and ironclads.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000


*Sigh* Coracle, why do you still play the game? I'm sure you've been asked this many times....

Why do you care? I guess I'm an eternal optimist hoping someday Firaxis will finally get it right. Maybe I'm a consumer activist demanding quality products. Take your pick.

Why don't you care about the problems that still need to be fixed?


To the topic:
Why don't you care that there is nothing that can really be done to make these units useful as no real leader in his right mind would bother building them if they cannot attack the targets for which they were designed - merchant shipping and trade?

[Iskandar Reza]

Originally posted by Coracle


Why do you care? I guess I'm an eternal optimist hoping someday Firaxis will finally get it right. Maybe I'm a consumer activist demanding quality products. Take your pick.

Why don't you care about the problems that still need to be fixed?

Hmm.. he has a point here. I never build subs or privateers because they're fairly useless, except for nuke subs