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  • #1

    AI giving away cities

    Hi, been visiting Apolyton for some time now, decided to finally post something.

    Anyway in a game I played a few weeks ago I was fighting China where I kept taking a city they had only to lose it again and again. I finally made peace but before I did I asked for that city and they gave it away! It was a bit ravaged by war but it had access to iron.

    Never seen that before, has that happened to someone else? I know the AI isn't exactly smart but it sure as hell hates giving up cities. Still, I'm going to try more often now!
    "Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." - Glen Bateman, The Stand (Stephen King)
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  • #2
    I have never seen the AI give up a city, not even in a 5:1 trade. You should post the save.

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    • #3
      I've seen the Ai give cities plenty of times, however usually its because they've declared war on me only to find that ive overpowered them....about 10 times.

      I really wish that they would make the AI a little more cooperative when it comes to cities....I mean, if I had two cities and each of them were surrounded by 100+ modern armour, I would probably accept peace and give them the cities instead of being furious and saying no.
      Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
      Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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      • #4
        Re: AI giving away cities

        Originally posted by NeoStar
        I finally made peace but before I did I asked for that city and they gave it away!
        The key to that is before. The ai will trade cities for peace if its losing. Ive never seen it trade a city for anything else though, and if you try to trade for peace + something for one of its cities it'll suddenly refuse. (ie, you ask to trade peace for London, the english will accept, you ask to trade peace and 1 gold for London and the English would never accept that deal)



        I do wish the ai would occasionally consider trading cities in normal trade though. At least on a city for a city basis (value based on corruption + cities access to resources + # of troops it has stationed in the city you asked for) The only problem is though it'd probally end up being too easy to take advantage of the ai since it has no way of realizing if a city has some intrinsic strategic value like a human can (such as being a canal between two large bodies of water, or in a choke point)

        I really wish that they would make the AI a little more cooperative when it comes to cities....I mean, if I had two cities and each of them were surrounded by 100+ modern armour, I would probably accept peace and give them the cities instead of being furious and saying no.
        I wish there was an option to demand an unconditional surrender at that point

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        • #5
          Originally posted by miccofl
          I have never seen the AI give up a city, not even in a 5:1 trade. You should post the save.
          I actually finished up that game. The point where that happened is lost!
          "Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." - Glen Bateman, The Stand (Stephen King)

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          • #6
            Re: Re: AI giving away cities

            Originally posted by wervdon


            The key to that is before. The ai will trade cities for peace if its losing.
            I could understand that, but they were fine! However, I had made EVERYONE declare war against them (not that they were doing anything, China was huge).
            "Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." - Glen Bateman, The Stand (Stephen King)

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            • #7
              If you are way stronger than the AI, you can get cities by renegotiating peace. This worked better in pre 1.21f versions though.
              Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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              • #8
                I could understand that, but they were fine!
                The ai is not the best as truelly assessing strategic situations. About all it does is count units on both sides I think.

                I had made EVERYONE declare war against them
                That probally had a large impact too. They always seem much more eager to get out of a war when they are in multiple wars at once than others, but that could be my imagination

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                • #9
                  While in SMAC it was too easy to grab good cities from AI, I consider almost useless that part of trading in Civ III

                  I understand how difficult could be for AI (...programmer) to evaluate on a strategic basis if a city trade is bargain or not, I would like to see at least some value considered into the equation.

                  Sometime I'll be happy to trade (sometime exchange) early or half developed city because I can better manage corruption, borders, allies' strong if I can:
                  - buy a small city, already inside or near my border, without the need to wait for culture flipping, maybe in exchange of a previously conquered city near the selling Civ.
                  - give (but not as a gift) some cities to a Civ I want to help to keep it stronger enough to be a valuable ally (this worked very well in SMAC, where you can have long pact very useful if you keep up the friendly AI development)
                  - excert some kind of "diplomatic influence" forcing a cities reallocation (a trade "buy from winner &sell back to original owner") after some silly attrition war between AI Civ

                  I know some particular situation are quite difficult to manage (beachead city, chokepoint city), also because the AI know in advance where strategic resources will appear, and it will fight forever before abandon the city or trade it.

                  I simply suppose that a mixed model between SMAC and CIV III mode can help in this part.

                  Maybe it's only my wrong opinion, because in Civ III others Civs are often furious with me (and I'm not a backstabber!), so it's very difficult to sign good trades for me.
                  "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
                   - Admiral Naismith

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
                    also because the AI know in advance where strategic resources will appear, and it will fight forever before abandon the city or trade it.
                    WHAT? I know the AI cheats but thats just rotten. How do you know?
                    "Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." - Glen Bateman, The Stand (Stephen King)

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                    • #11
                      He doesn't... because it ain't true. It's a myth like the ocean-going unsinkable AI galleys, something people speculate about because it would explain strange situations. Sometimes it's just bad karma when the AI outsmarts you

                      Regarding city trading: I wish they changed it again in next patch, or in the one after that. I fully understand that it was too easily exploitable in the first version of CivIII (Build a small city in an uninhabitable place, and sell it the same turn to an AI for all their cash, techs, lux and resources), but that could be changed with hysteris: Make AI cities very expensive for humans, while human cities are cheap for AI. This way you can't abuse the lack of strategic insight of the AI, while you still are able to purchase cities peacefully.

                      DeepO

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                      • #12
                        The AI gives me cities all the time. IF you whoop upon them, they'll give you two or three small ones at the peace table.

                        Good idea DeepO.

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                        • #13
                          If your beating the crap out of them they will give up a city for pease. I once Joan of Arc give up a french city for pease. I like it because it was on another island.
                          I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow. As surely as night follows day.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeepO

                            Make AI cities very expensive for humans, while human cities are cheap for AI. This way you can't abuse the lack of strategic insight of the AI, while you still are able to purchase cities peacefully.

                            DeepO
                            Cheers mate Mail Firaxis on that one. Peaceful domination? Now that's interesting.
                            "Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." - Glen Bateman, The Stand (Stephen King)

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                            • #15
                              Re: Re: AI giving away cities

                              Originally posted by wervdon
                              Ive never seen it trade a city for anything else though, and if you try to trade for peace + something for one of its cities it'll suddenly refuse. (ie, you ask to trade peace for London, the english will accept, you ask to trade peace and 1 gold for London and the English would never accept that deal)
                              Why not? Isn't that a common thing in real life?



                              waiting patiently for Coracle to come in and start Civ3 bashing....
                              Don't drink and drive, smoke and fly.
                              Anti-bush and anti-Bush.
                              "Who's your Daddy? You know who your Daddy is, huh?? It's me! Yeah.. I'm your Daddy! Uh-huh! How come I'm your Daddy! 'Coz I did this to your Mama? Yeah, your Mama! Yeah this your Mama! Your Mama! You suck man, but your Mama's sweet! You suck, but your Mama, ohhh... Uh-huh, your Mama! Far out man, you do suck, but not as good as your Mama! So what's it gonna be? Spit or swallow, sissy boy?" - Superfly, joecartoon

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