Democrocy. what's the point?

[zorbop]

when firaxis designed civ3, they gave democrocy and republic the advantage of less corruption, and a bit more money, but the money is cancled out because they pay for units...
but because to much corruption makes the game boring, bad, unfun, stupid and soforth, it has been reduced in patches, and further ruduced by most with mods.
all this makes democrocy so useless it is not even funny.


any ideas for improving it?

[Catt]

I think democracy is very, very powerful (but am coming to appreciate the power of republic).

Monarchy and communism do not allow one's civ to compete on a technological advancement scale (with rare exceptions). If one is able to remain in monarchy or communism for the entire game and compete in research, either (i) the game was won in the early middle ages, or (ii) the game is one prolonged war, or (iii) the player needs to step up to the next level (and if you're Aeson, who can win in any situation at Diety, then . . . . ).

Corruption has not been reduced too far in the standard game (though pretty close); if it's been reduced too far in most mods, then alter the mods.

Catt

[Nubclear]

IMO, Communism is actually quite weak. No war weariness and the free units are nice, but its not really worth the loss of commerce and research.

Which is actually quite unrealistic. Communist countries economies are beginning to go up (China, for example), and even if you dismiss that the Soviet Union produced MANY MANY advances, especially over the United States. Of course most people ignore those and focus on the one fact that the US put the first human on the moon, but....Now I'm just ranting.

But, I simply tweaked the editor and fixed communism. It's much better now

[GeneralTacticus]

Which is actually quite unrealistic. Communist countries economies are beginning to go up (China, for example),

Only after having ditched everything except the form of communism.

and even if you dismiss that the Soviet Union produced MANY MANY advances, especially over the United States.

You could probably say they did this simply by spending masses of money on acience and letting themselves go into the red in their budget.

But, I simply tweaked the editor and fixed communism. It's much better now

How did you 'fix' it? I'd like to know.

[Solver]

Democracy is not as powerful as it used to be in Civ 2, but is still a very good government. If you just plan to rest in peace and research your way, it's what you need. However then, military conflicts will be causing you some serious problems, very probably.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
IMO, Communism is actually quite weak. No war weariness and the free units are nice, but its not really worth the loss of commerce and research.

Which is actually quite unrealistic. Communist countries economies are beginning to go up (China, for example), and even if you dismiss that the Soviet Union produced MANY MANY advances, especially over the United States. Of course most people ignore those and focus on the one fact that the US put the first human on the moon, but....Now I'm just ranting.

But, I simply tweaked the editor and fixed communism. It's much better now

While I agree with you that the USSR was a scientific powerhouse, they had to run a deficiet to do so. I would consider them as generating negative gold per turn (in Civ terms) moreso than the US. The two countries were on a par science-wise, yet the USSR collapsed due to lack of money.

[dunk]

With the religious trait, you can switch governments willy-nilly, so you might as well switch to the government that best suits the situation at every turn. You're not fighting, switch to Democracy, fighting, switch to Communism, fighting a short war, switch to Republic. Etc, etc.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
and even if you dismiss that the Soviet Union produced MANY MANY advances, especially over the United States.

mmm... Like forbidding their scientists to study evolution? I would suggest you take away your extra "MANY", then I'll agree with you.


"Tonight a 5 alarm fire burns in downtown Moscow, paving way for a glorious new tractor factory. In other news, many evil capitalists are about to die in lunar shuttle disaster. HAHAHAHAHAHA [BANG!]"

- Russian News Anchor, Airplane 2: The Sequel

That was just somthing to came to mind, pay no attention to it, I thought it was funny.

EDIT: Oh, and not to mention the russians were the ones who put wooden floors in Nuke reactor buildings. They thought radiation would go up into the air, no into the ground, so they only put concrete and lead dome around the reactor housing. They laughed when they saw our nuke reactors with concrete and lead flooring as well as the dome... then cryed with chynobal.

[Thrawn05]

War weariness is not much of a prob for me. I can deal with it. So long I have the happy wonders, and if I'm in war, pump money into entertainment. I don't capture new cities that often, so I raze them and keep the workers, which work just as well as my own workers in a Rebublic government, and often I take my own workers and have them join my new cities I built, so I can save some cash.

[Jaybe]

In Democracy, there is also the increased Worker speed to consider (especially when you get steam power).

[Nubclear]

I would suggest you take away your extra "MANY", then I'll agree with you.

Just placing a little more emphasis on it.

: Oh, and not to mention the russians were the ones who put wooden floors in Nuke reactor buildings. They thought radiation would go up into the air, no into the ground, so they only put concrete and lead dome around the reactor housing. They laughed when they saw our nuke reactors with concrete and lead flooring as well as the dome... then cryed with chynobal.

Wasn't it the United States that tested a dubbed down nuclear missile on an island for training purposes...But they didn't really know what would happen and then hundreds of native islanders along with US Soldiers were poisoned by radiation?

Also, in 1957, didn't a small 10-Megaton Hydrogen bomb get
dropped on some US state?

And in 1953, I'm pretty sure that a nuclear test that happend above ground caused radioactive rain to fall on Troy, New York. Apparently, the US is not without its share of accidents...

And isn't the US moving nuclear waste through it's cities to put it all in some mountain in the west?

But now were getting into stuff that doesnt belong in this forum

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
And isn't the US moving nuclear waste through it's cities to put it all in some mountain in the west?

Yes, Yucca mountain, if the Nevadans don't find a way to keep it out. There is also a scheduled move of something like 30,000 pounds of plutonium from a Colorado weapons plant to a "facility" in South Carolina.

[zorbop]

even if i try to go peacefully some ai declares war on me because i won't just give them my advances.... then get the other ai to team up on me.
the only way to get out of the war without paying the ai bundles of money is to capture a city of theirs so they will pay me... with advances... to get out of war.
then someone else declares war on me.

and yes, the U.S. is moving plutonium through cities. specifically, St. Louis, the city I live in... by train... old train tracks.... drivers that like to park there cars ON train tracks...
and chernoble did not happen because of wooden floors. it happened because someone thought it would be a good idea to crank it up to maximum for a few hours befoure a short holiday. that is it's cause.

another U.S. accident is 3 mile island, remember the china syndrom?

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
But now were getting into stuff that doesnt belong in this forum

Agreed, perhaps we'll meet each other in the Civ forum, but I'm better at defending Roma then US... mainly because I care less about specific US history.

I just find it funny that all your counter aguements were about nukes. Isn't there ANYTHING else other then nukes?

Please PM so we don't kill this thread.

[Free Enterprise]

This struck a nerve:
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Tassadar5000


"Also, in 1957, didn't a small 10-Megaton Hydrogen bomb get
dropped on some US state?"

This incident has nothing to do with the U.S. being inferior the the idiotic Soviet Union. The U.S. never blew up any city before.


"And isn't the US moving nuclear waste through it's cities to put it all in some mountain in the west?"

You call this a weakness or blunder? This is outrageous. They are moving toxic materials to a dump site in South Carolina, which is my state by the way. It will not poision anyone, unlike the Soviets did many times.

The average per captia income is far greater in the U.S. than the formerly 'alive' Soviet Union and to top that off the U.S. polluted its self far less than did the communistic USSR. The techonology in the average household and in buisnesses far exceed the USSR also. Every heard of Microsoft? Or IBM? What about Ford and other car comapines? Don't forget to mention the U.S. wasn't the one with food shortages. Like *cough* North Korea.

On topic,
Civ 3 is highly accurate about each governments strengths.

I find Democracy only seems to be effective if you are playing a religious civ that way you can switch governments at a moments notice if war breaks out. The war weariness seems to be a server problem unless the battle is very short.

So therefore I use Republic(or Monarchy) if I am not a play a religious civ. And Democracy is good if you are playing a religious civ. It is possible to try it without religious however you may want to wait until you are a major superpower just in case of....